04.27.2011 03:01 PM

Tales from under the bus (updated)

Having taken up residence there less than a year ago, you will forgive me for finding stuff like this a little hard to read.

Me, not exactly as pictured.


  1. One thing is certain: the bus is going to hurt Michael Ignatieff and those around him a *lot* more than it hurt you.

    At least the pain will be felt elsewhere… Stephen Harper must be, or soon will be, kicking himself for engineering his own defeat.

  2. Desperation leaves a lousy stench that you just can’t wash out.

    I hope you run for the leadership, Warren. I’m in if you do.

  3. kyliep says:

    “Yes, how can you possibly expect the Liberals and NDP to merge?”, asked the Liberal leader, standing beside the former NDP premier, now an elected and prominent Liberal MP. Yowsa.

  4. Craig Chamberlain says:

    You were right, but you were wrong.

  5. Supernaut says:

    Why is so loyalty valued so highly in politics? Supply/Demand.

    • MCBellecourt says:

      I’m questioning my own loyalty at this moment, too. Michael Ignatieff missed out on a golden opportunity today.

      He told a group of students today that he will decriminalize small amounts of pot in one’s possession but was against legalization.

      The cannabis business in BC, at last count, was estimated a six BILLION dollars yearly. If done right, legalization would go a long way towards killing the deficit and putting a big crunch on organized crime, saving even more money. But there’s another factor.

      The manufacturing sector could be revived. Can you imagine the potential for export of finished materials made from hemp? Everything from clothing, to fishermans’ equipment, to buiding materials, to food products, and then there’s the medical research that could be kick-started. All from a crop that is renewable every damned YEAR. That means good-paying JOBS.

      The benefits for the environment would be immediately felt. Strategically planted, hemp could prevent soil erosion in beetle-killed forestlands, and stable soil means better sapling growth. All plants give off oxygen as well, and clean the air we breathe.

      Layton announced that his party is for the legalization of marijuana. What do you think that’s going to do to the overall voting picture? It’s not just students–hell, my 83-year old Mom thinks it should be legal, too!

      • Namesake says:

        maybe so, re: the step not taking, but non- or negligible-THC bearing hemp production & the products thereof (both food & textiles) ARE already legal in Canada; here’s where you can buy oils & butter, e.g.


        • MCBellecourt says:

          Perhaps, but the stigma behind the current illegal status of cannibis is holding us back from a great potential. I’m not saying we should export the smokin’ kind at all, so don’t get me wrong, but without the stigma, our production of these goods could be widely expanded for export–and those goods could carry a Made In Canada label. Hence, jobs.

          The biggest picture of all is the money saved on law enforcement, and the diversion of all those funds from organized crime to government. It’s in the Billions in my province alone, yet other than money spent by gangsters in stores, the bulk of all that money is currently doing nothing to shore up our health care system, etc.–it’s all going to gangs to keep their operations viable, and to make them rich–and they don’t give a shit about who they kill on the way to that wealth.

  6. john lawson says:

    Check out Nanos Leadership #’s today — wow

  7. Namesake says:

    Colour me Shocked…. Michelle, that is:


  8. Philippe says:

    You have to give the man a break Warren, he was owed one election shot.

    • Lord Kitchener says:

      better not to be associated with Iggy — he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth on this coalition business and is starting to look desperate.

      the Family Pack (sounds like a bucket of chicken) has been scooped by the NDP — and their talking points are better and resonates more with voters. Jacques is a smooth operator — I wonder how the relationship is between “Honest” Bob Rae and Iggy at this point?

      CPC tactics worked — they defined Iggy as a foreign political mercenary before Iggy could define himself.

      • Lord Kitchener says:

        “I am not going to complain about it because it seems to give the other guys too much damn credit. I don’t give these guys damn credit for anything,” the Liberal leader said, slamming his fist on the table. “I am not going to let other people frame me up … they can go to hell is what I have thought basically for two and a half years.” — Michael Ignatieff

        Yup — getting desperate

        Don’t take it personal Mike, it is only politics.

  9. gretschfan says:

    Just when I thought Ig’s biggest mistake was the Mansbridge interview, the guy shows us again how he has the timing sense of a roomful of tubas.

  10. Michael S says:

    Ed Broadbent will be enjoying his omelet at Jak’s Diner. His guests will be eating crow.

  11. Greg says:

    I always thought the merger was a fantasy. Now it is just beyond belief (double fantasy?).

  12. Mulletaur says:

    That makes it official : there is no longer any floor on Liberal support.

  13. wannabeapiper says:

    Soon you will be driving the bus laddy!

  14. Dr.J says:

    Why does this guy’s new position on a merge surprise you? He has taken multiple sides on various issues so why is this any different? EXAMPLES: HST agaisnt in BC,voted yes in the house; GST raise yes,now no; auto bailout no in BC,yes in Ontario; he said he will move into his riding;he lives in Yorkville….this dude speaks out of both sides of his mouth pretending we do not pay attention…my prediction is that if the Liberals finish 3rd he isn’t going to “help merge” the left..he will be living outside of Canada within one calendar year.

    • JStanton says:

      … no buddy, that’s not how it works. Only Liberals get to kick him while he’s down. You had your turn while he was up, and you will have your turn again, when Ezra Levant, desperate for cash, writes some kind of poisoned revisionist tome that only die-hard cons will buy or read.


  15. Well, if you think being right will rehabilitate you in his outfit’s eyes, think again.
    Now you know what it feels like to be on the left. Being right too soon (about, say, Iraq, or the financial meltdown) is deeply disreputable and the sign of someone who cannot be trusted.
    Incidentally, “too soon” means “before the train has left and gotten at least three stations away”.

  16. No point in attacking Ignatieff now – he’s the walking dead. Libs and Tories need to blunt the orange crush.

    • Craig Chamberlain says:

      If Ignatieff had half the time we’ve given Harper to prove himself as PM, I think we would be looking at a Liberal majority.

      • Raymond says:

        I wouldn’t be too sure. Paul Martin was the guy that was supposed to deliver the LPC 200+ seats. I think the Liberal brand needs re-branding.

      • Political Outsider says:

        If Michael Ignatieff had decided to proceed with the coalition agreement when Parliament resumed in January 2009 instead of supporting the Harper government, he would have been Prime Minister of Canada for the past two years. I wonder what he will be doing on June 30, 2011.


        December 1, 2008

        An Accord on a Cooperative Government to Address the Present
        Economic Crisis

        This document outlines the key understandings between the Liberal Party of
        Canada and the New Democratic Party of Canada regarding a new cooperative

        2. Cabinet

        Nothing in this Accord is intended to diminish or alter the power and prerogatives
        of the Prime Minister.

        The Prime Minister will be the Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.

        This Accord will expire on June 30, 2011 unless renewed.

        Agreed on December 1, 2008.

        Hon. Stéphane Dion
        Leader, Liberal Party of Canada

        Hon. Jack Layton
        Leader, New Democratic Party of Canada

        • The Doctor says:

          I don’t know about that, though, because that coalition agreement (or whatever you want to call it) was in place when Dion was LPC Leader. The only reason Dion resigned was that the coalition thingy blew up. So I don’t think you can say Iggy would have been PM. Probably a prominent cabinet minister, but not PM.

  17. Michael says:

    Before we start writing the obituary of the Liberal Party, let’s take a walk down memory lane to 1984.
    Brian Mulroney had just one the largest majority in Canadian history. John Turner’s Liberals were reduced to 40 seats. They written off as dead having suffered the largest defeat of a governing party in Canadian history, losing 107 seats.
    Pundits couldn’t trip over themselves fast enough to tell us how Mulroney had crafted the perfect coalition to turn the Progessive Conservatives into natural governing party of Canada. He had united the west and Quebec nationalists, along with strong support in Ontario. (anyone remember the Ontario Big Blue Machine?). It was going to be PC majorities for a long time to come.
    How did that work out for you?

    • The Doctor says:

      Good point. The NDP was also considered near-dead in the 1990s, under Audrey McLaughlin (especially) and Alexa McDonough. They even lost official party status for a while.

      Although as a counterpoint to yours, I don’t believe that in 1984 the LPC finished behind the NDP and they were at least the official opposition. Neither of those things may happen this time, so I think that’s fueling a big part of the LPC angst — it’s not just the seat count, it’s the finishing behind the Dippers.

    • Ministry of Information says:

      Nothing to see here, folks, move along: just some delusional, ugh, ‘old people’ misremembering. I’m sure you’ll find that any historical records one might try to access to substantiate this heresy will be redacted, indefinitely delayed and/or classified as cabinet confidences.

    • No, the two situations then and now are not the same.

      Harper doesn’t need Quebec, not much of it anyway, to get a majority. He’s got a lock on the west for the most part, and, in the right conditions, can get more of Ontario than he has now plus increases in Atlantic Canada.

      Brilliant as Chretien was, he had a lot of help from the western locked Reform, and the BQ — both of which were aided and abetted by Mulroney’s coalition breaking apart. If Harper leaves, maybe, maybe, centrist Tories of the Progressive Conservative variety might try to reassert themselves within the party and leave if they couldn’t, but somehow I doubt they will leave. A new leadership race will ensue, if the leader is made of the right stuff, the factions of the CPC will stay together. Until Harper or his party do something that Canadians truly detest, they can win a majority… it’s the teflon party don’t you know. Maybe after that first, or second, majority, the country would send them to the woodshed in about 8 years. Got patience?
      the party.

      Assuming for a moment that Harper isn’t able to pull off a majority, and that the NDP surge becomes a new plateau for them for a while, it’ll be very difficult for Harper to get a majority if we go to the polls again. The bar will have been raised substantially. Where he might have achieved a majority with 35 or 40 percent of the vote before this shift, he’ll need more next time and he doesn’t appear to be able to grow his vote, at least not without appealing to blue Grits in a way he hasn’t done so far.

      The time to talk turkey was long before the writ was dropped when the LPC still had more than double the number of seats of the NDP, not long after when the party potentially may have half.

      That all said I don’t think Layton would have seriously entertained merger; as I’ve always said, he’s been out to destroy the LPC not merge with it.

  18. Cam says:

    Good Day:

    I think I’d like to wait for the votes to be counted. I think folks are pissed and just looking for a change. I think the Liberals blew it when they went negative on TV with the “absolute power” ads about a week or two ago. I’ll be happy if Harper doesn’t get his majority. Further, if Jack doesn’t get his majority, then me thinks maybe the Liberals should think about keeping Ignatieff and not eating their own – there has been enough of that.

  19. Supernaut says:

    Forget “creeping panic” in the tone over at NP; it now appears that they are starting to lose their shit. As a right-wing rag that more-or-less preaches to the choir, who is it they’re aiming all this shrill red panic at, and to what end? Are they trying to frighten the base into GOTV? Won’t do much good based on the fact that the base is already well, “the base”, n’est pas? Also, someone posted somewhere about this weekend’s Royal Wedding and Toronto’s UFC event preventing any party’s from changing the game over that time, which I think is a pretty much bang on the money.

  20. jack says:

    The NDP is simply too far left and if a merger proceeded some well heeled centrists would fly another Liberal or Liberal-like flag with a new party. Mergers always sound good whether it be comapnies or political parties but eventually another one pops up. Its a cycle.

  21. harry says:

    Rumours are flying about that rhe NDP is now locking in first place. Here is at least is one Liberal who is telling it like it is, and you know it may be not the wisest approach during an election campaign, but I respect him for his honesty. There is not a lot of that to be seen, and quite frankly it is refreshing. Once again Liberals should have listened to Warren a long time ago, but that unfortunately is not going to help Liberals presently. Read this and weep if you must, but it is about the most accurate piece of journalism I have seen during this entire election campaign.

  22. allegra fortissima says:

    Last year in May:


    And then Mr. Kinsella suggested what he suggested, and Mr. Ignatieff said what he said, and Mr. Kinsella wrote what he wrote, et cetera, et cetera, ad infinitum…

    The German language has a few great words. One of them is “Ruedenpinkeln” (with Umlaut).

    • JStanton says:

      … yes, the Germans know depths of feeling others are unaware of…. although I don’t understand “Ruedenpinkeln”.

      Another is “torschlusspanik”, and this is Mr. Ignatieff’s Achilles heal.


  23. Brian Appel says:

    Any bets on what the new party will be called? I like either “Liberal Democratic Party”. Or what about “Progressive Democratic Party” as a shot at the former PC Party?

    Either way, I think Chretien and Broadbent should start arranging the meetings sooner rather than later, so we can get things rolling ASAP.

    • reformatory says:

      hello- a proper convention is the place to start for any potential bed buddies. and NO it should not be instigated by Chretien or Broadbent– 2 former leaders who have no stake in the future of the party. It should be made by grassroots members on the ground and who are vested in the future success of the party.

      The idea has to be well thought out. It can’t be done overnight with a BAM. It might not work. A right and a left party would not give Canadians the choice they wanted. Ask the Americans how they like their 2 party system and then you might not be so inclined.

      I’m not saying it’s a bad idea– I’m saying there are tons of ‘iffs’ and too much to explore before the possiblitity comes to fruitation.

      We can’t get quality democracy and quality political life and institutions in a HURRY.

      There are so many scenarios

      1. Harper majority – ouch dark days ahead
      2. Harper minority / Layton OLO – OUCH for the liberals but wait- depends on how he got there. Did the Bloc crumble? Did the Liberals crumble? Would Layton attempt power- with whom? It might cause defections to the Conservatives getting Harper over the edge. It might result in an effective merger because Layton understands that he requires the experience of the Liberal team to help him fly his new JET.
      3. Harper minority / Liberals OLO – Better scenario but again. Did the Liberals get more seats. Did the NDP surge evaporate. Was the Harper minority reduced. Did the NDP steal seats from the BLOC. Can the Liberals and the NDP merge and form the gov’t without the BLOC

      Do you see where I’m going here….. the possibilities are endless.. I suppose it’s fun to play around on here. But Please stop bashing “the home team”.

      Part of the reason why I check into this site is to see the point of view of fellow Liberals. If I wanted to see the viewpoints of the Conservatives– I’d be posting on their gloomy sites– but I’m not and it’s hurtful when you see team members scoring on your own net.

  24. AndrewOpala says:

    This election stuff is so exciting I wish we had one every year. But why during the playoffs? … and Easter … and JPII beatification … and …?

    Anyway, can you do all of us a really really big favour and write a post on Monday May 2nd asking for our ideas of the vote breakdown – and then offer the winner one of Jean Chretien’s balls. You know the one’s I mean.- and no I don’t mean the left one.

  25. Steve T says:

    Every time Iggy talks about co-operation with the NDP, another centrist Liberal defects to the Tories. Iggy’s flaw during this campaign wasn’t the fact he dismissed a coaltion. It was his absence of any tangible ideas or platform – just a bunch of anti-Harper bluster. If that had been combined with coalition talk, the LPC numbers would be even worse than they are now. I have a lot of “blue Liberal” friends, and even a sniff of NDP co-operation sends them straight to the CPC.

  26. reformatory says:

    Lots of people here are tooting their horns justifying their positions months ago about a coalition.

    First off.. they failed at convincing anybody who could have made it happen… to happen.

    Second they are equating Jack’s rise in Quebec now and skewing the national numbers with the rise that might have or potentially would have been passed on to the merged party. Too many iffs folks.

    For one… Jack would not have been the leader of that merged party. Whose to say with a stark choice of Iggy and Harper- the masses would have flown to Iggy? Hmmm.. it could have stayed with Harper. There’s no question the appeal Jack is getting.. is his and not the NDP’s. Maybe.. the way it is playing out– is the best. Everybody drops their ego- we get rid of Harper and we sit at the table and discuss like mature adults the merits and drawbacks. What is to be.. will be.

    Considering the unification of the right was more of a re-assembly of parties in Canadian politics… the last time we had parties merging were the liberals and conservatives at the time of confederation. Ohh and I can’t forget the CCF merging with the NDP. The point is.. party merging is a delicate thing that needs to be handled with kid gloves. It’s starts and ends with the grassroots memberships of the parties involved. Not thrust upon from any backrooms.

    In the meantime– Shame on some supposed Liberals for bringing this up during an election for heaven’s sake. You have the rest of the summer to air out the laundry. For now– all team members who are truly team members should have all hands on deck…. lets land this plane before we start to shuffle off.

    • I’m not a big fan of Larry Campbell. I can’t decide whether to respect him for his achievements or decry him as a one hit wonder (politically). He did leave us (Vancouverites) with Sam Sullivan after all.

      But blaming party fortunes on Campbell is stupid. You can talk coalition all you want now, the damage to LPC chances in this election happened long ago. Larry’s fedora in the background shot of the Vancouver presser did more damage to the LPC earlier this week than his musings about inter-party cooperation or merger.

      Internal politics aside, Ignatieff should get full credit for how he has represented his party during the campaign. But he also has to wear full blame for not making the changes or overtures necessary in the two years preceding.

  27. George says:

    I just watched Ignatieff’s event in from Dryden’s riding and I have to say that 3/4s of the man’s speech was about the merits of Jean Chretien, Jean’s accomplishments and pretty much the going-away party Ignatieff missed when he was elsewhere. Over-the-top excited to the point of being manic and I thought several times that he was going to poke Jean’s eye out with his pointing finger.

    • Eric says:

      and just yesterday the LPC ran an ad criticizing these terrible ‘career politicians’. The LPC is in free-fall because they don’t know where they stand and the public has finally recognized their duplicity and lack of principles.

  28. JaneN says:

    Wait a minute, Iggy said the opposite regarding a merger to the Toronto Star editorial Board today:
    “Ignatieff RULED OUT any kind of merger with the NDP if the Conservatives come out on top in the election. The Liberals and the New Democrats have a completely different political history and view on how to govern Canada.”

    Source: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/981662–combative-ignatieff-says-tories-can-go-to-hell

  29. Rick T. says:

    You guys really need to have a long serious look at your Party and start from square one.

    Stop electing Professors. Elect someone that can connect to the every day Canadian.

    • Namesake says:

      what, like ‘Mr. Electric,’ Harper, who just thinks he’s a world-class intellect?

      Or Jack Layton, who, um, actually was a professor?

      ” In 1970, the family moved to Toronto where Layton went to York University to obtain his Ph.D. in political science. Layton then became a professor at Ryerson University.”


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