12.22.2011 11:08 AM

Sex and censorship: Brian Lilley cuts off my mic, and other issues (updated)

Yesterday, Brian Lilley’s producer asked me to be on their show. I asked what the subject matter was. She indicated it was about a poll they’d had done, and a column I wrote on the weekend about sexual education in Ontario schools. I hadn’t written a column about sexual education in Ontario schools, but whatever. Send me the poll, I said. So she did.

The poll is seen here. All of the loaded questions it poses are grossly misleading. One, at page five, is factually incorrect. It states: “The teacher’s guide currently in use in Ontario instructs teachers to not alert parents when sensitive material may be raised in the classroom.”

That’s false. That’s more than false, actually: it’s a lie. I checked with the Ministry of Education. Here’s what the guide actually says, at page ten: Sending a school newsletter home at the beginning of each term is a best practice for keeping parents/guardians/caregivers informed of all upcoming equity topics in the classroom without having to single out one topic over the other.”

So, when I tried to address that on Brian Lilley’s show, here’s what happened:

You can decide for yourself whether Brian, who says he is a free speech advocate, acted in a very free-speechy way. I don’t think he did.

Brian, however, isn’t the issue. The issue is that the questions in the poll are highly misleading or, in the one example cited above, unadulterated bullshit. There’s nothing in the Ontario curriculum that says not to notify parents when sensitive subjects come up. The reverse is true. And, what they are referring to (I think) is a Toronto District School Board guidebook. And that guidebook actually says it is the “best practice” to notify parents at the beginning of every term about all of the topics that are going to come up.

The other questions in the Abacus survey about sex ed are also based on misinformation, or worse: that’s because there is no such “proposal” on the table, full stop. The proposed changes came out 2 years ago, and were sent back to the drawing board by the Premier himself. There is no current proposal to change the curriculum, so it’s status quo from the 1998 curriculum – a curriculum developed, by the by, under the government of Mike Harris and Tim Hudak. If anything, the Abacus polling perhaps shows that Dalton McGuinty understood and was in sync with the public mood two years ago when he sent the proposal back.

Let’s say that again, without my mic being cut off this time: the sex ed curriculum being taught in our schools is the same one put in place by the Harris government in 1998. The point of the curriculum is to make sure kids can identify the parts of their own body (i.e. so if someone is molested they can identify to their teacher or police where they were touched), to have a healthy self image, and to understand in later grades that while abstinence is best, there are very real consequences to unsafe and unprotected sex. It would be irresponsible not to talk to students about this stuff. It would be insane.

But what is really going here? Let’s put it all on the table. What the McGuinty government (and every government, irrespective of partisan stripe) is targeting is bullying. As parents and leaders, we need to make sure we are doing everything we can to make all of our schools accepting places. That means accepting of everyone – gay kids included.

Now, as soon as you say that, you get the Far Right SoCon kooks up in arms, as has recently happened in Ontario. They’ll always try to push whatever button they can to scare people. We saw that in the Ontario election campaign, when Hudak – despicably, falsely – tried to scare people about cross dressing six year olds. It’s a lie.

Personally, I think Ontarians can be proud that their government, and their Premier, is saying enough is enough. We’re not putting up with it anymore. Our kids are not putting up with it anymore. And we’re not going to let anyone – Brian Lilley included – make them feel like they deserve any less than any other kid.

Now, go ahead and cut my mic off. I’ve said what I wanted to say.

UPDATE: Longtime TV broadcaster (and former Conservative staffer and candidate) Jordi Morgan weighs in:

109 Comments

  1. Harith says:

    Yeah, it boils my blood how the frothing-at-the-mouth rightwing nutters get all up in arms about OH MY GOD THEY’RE TEACHING MY KIDS ABOUT TRANSSEXUALS AND ASS-FUCKING MEN!!!!!!

    Perish the thought! Other kids are getting bullied and depressed, some even committing suicide, and they’re worried about their kids finding out about things that they probably know anyway thanks to the internet.

  2. Warren, I have no idea how you manage to keep so calm when on Brian’s show. I’d like to think I could keep cool, but something tells me I’d drop a few ‘F’ bombs, rip off my mic and flip Brian off on my way off the set. You do an excellent job. Keep it up.

  3. sassy says:

    It’s Sun – I’m not surprised.

  4. sj says:

    As a dear friend of mine, who wrote the most-widely used textbook for teachers of sex ed, says of those against sex ed “they would rather their children died of a death of ignorance.”

  5. The Other Jim says:

    I can’t watch this guy. Too smarmy by half. I don’t care what his politics are, he just rubs me the wrong way.

  6. Dan F says:

    Warren,
    Why do you, as a Liberal, continue to work for the media arm of the Hudak/Harper Conservatives? They don’t even pretend anymore. I don’t get it

    • Warren says:

      Because I don’t mind taking the fight to the other side. I enjoy it, in fact. And the Sun – until last night – had never, ever censored a thing I say.

      • Jon Powers says:

        Did the producer actually listen to him and cut your mike? It seems to me that you stopped talking once he said to cut your mike, but when you did respond, your mike was on. (Granted, still a stupid thing for a host to say). Would you go back on his show? The two of you seemed cordial enough to one another on previous shows – or is that all an act? I think you and Lilley need to hug it out.

  7. Craig says:

    HA HA HA HA HA…. my god that was funny to watch. He got owned and then did the talk show equivalent of taking his ball and going home. That was a very amusing start to my morning…

  8. William says:

    Thankfully, I don’t watch Sun

  9. smelter rat says:

    Lilley is acting like a complete asshole. Or maybe it’s not an act.

  10. EM says:

    I, too, loved the final 30 seconds of that clip. A classic!

    Anyway, I find it fascinating that right-wingers get so worked up about sex but are perfectly ok with putting more guns in homes.

    I am also perplexed by their insistence on their “right” to decide what is taught in school based on their so-called “morality”. Aren’t they the ones who scream bloody murder every time a minority religious group objects to what is done or taught in schools?

    It’s all very confusing for a bike-riding pinko leftard like me.

  11. In the system says:

    Hey Warren, who owns Abacus data. I see their name tossed around a lot these days, whenever a conservative agency presents “findings”.

    • Warren says:

      I believe Tim Powers and some other Conservative folks at Summa, the lobby firm.

      • In the system says:

        Ah. Right. Just had a look at the survey. Best part was this line:

        “Since the online survey was not a random, probability based sample, a margin of error could not be calculated.”

        You might want to ask Sunnews if they’re getting value for money on their polling budget, because Abacus data, by their own admission, doesn’t do polling. They do “surveys”.

    • SF Thomas says:

      The head of Abacus is called David Colletto. He did his post grad work under Tom Flanagan. He’s currently teaching at Carleton University, he’s actually one of my profs.

  12. Michael Radan says:

    I for one do not think that children should learn about sex in the classroom.

    They should learn about it the way god intended, the way I and countless generations before me have learned about it. In the school yard.

    • Kevin says:

      Or with those VHS tapes with the orange dot on the spine that dad used to hide on the top shelf. Man, grade 5 was never the same after.

    • dave says:

      Or in the path in the woods behind the school, with a sun-faded, waterlogged copy of a porno mag that some older kid left there.

      You know, the old-fashioned way.

  13. T.W says:

    Who’s Brian Lilley?
    And why should we care?
    It’s sad to see this on Canadian airwaves, but it’s not like Sun TV is a ratings juggernaut.
    If it gains traction however, then we got a problem.

  14. W the K - No, not Warren says:

    “You’re asking me to leave the air and go to my office, dig up a quote, come back here and hold it up to the camera.” Shouldn’t he have done that before the interview? Isn’t that, y’know, his job??? Does Lilley think that is his job? Oh no, not Lilley. He thinks “that is a load of garbage…”

    Theatre of the absurd. The only thing real in that interview was Warren’s indignation at the end when that endless barrage of Sun bullsh*t just had to be called.

    • Warren says:

      It was actually on tape, too. It wasn’t live. There was plenty of opportunity to do it right.

      • Outsider says:

        This is what jumped out at me as well. In other words, are we expecting that he does some preparation in anticipation of a debate – which he most surely expected, and for a short while there, welcomed? Well, shucks, yes we are – as long as we assume we are listening to an actual credible journalist rather than a right-wing mouthpiece. The guy is so unctious, so oily, I feel like showering after listening to him or Ezra … tho, admittedly, I do very little of that any more (listening to those two idiots; I still shower daily) …

  15. Richard Besserer says:

    Warren, why do you put up with this sort of thing? I can’t believe Quebecor pay you enough to make it worth it.

    I know what I’d do in your place—demand that Lilley be disciplined if Quebecor ever want you to write a column for the Sun papers again, or failing that wish them luck finding another liberal punching-pag of your stature, because they’ll need it.

  16. Philippe says:

    Goes to show how much these ideological Cons love to dish it out but can’t take it.

  17. SML says:

    Tout le monde s’insurge de la mort de Kyoto.

    Mais l’holocauste des enfants à naître ne scandalise personne. Pas même le clergé catholique.

    C’est pourtant un crime contre l’humanité. Le concile Vatican II appelle l’avortement un crime abominable.

    L’hiver démographique est en train de nous faire disparaître…

    L’avortement, un crime abominable !
    http://fr.gloria.tv/?media=215206

    Film. Hiver démographique: le déclin de la famille humaine

    2 Episodes

    http://byutv.org/show/5e819b00-5e99-4bf4-931e-c154d3c2dc8d

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZeyYIsGdAA

    Barack Obama et le projet Negro.

    Avortement et le génocide noir.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfFVKqHWJU0

    Maafa 21: film en 13 épisodes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLnNi_qb7nY

    Merci. Joyeux Noël.

  18. Dale says:

    Hey, I thought that I would point out that I was taught sex ed beginning in grade 6 (so, around 1991 in NS) and then I was taught about anal and oral in grade 7. I didn’t even have the internet then and I already had a good idea of what all that was by then anyway. But those courses helped me understand all the risks associated with sexual behavior so that when I started to have sex in high school I was well prepared.

    I don’t see the big deal in teaching kids about sex, especially now when they can google anything they want and probably get a way more distorted view about sex.

    Just my two cents.

  19. Jim Tarber says:

    Some “interviewers” just want to hear their own voice, their own opinions. This segment proves that Lilley is one of those. It also clearly shows he is not after the truth, but rather shaping opinion to suit his own agenda.

    Kinsella, I didn’t really know you before this, but I applaud your classy handling of this non-journalist. What a complete sham that was. Your response was completely appropriate and I don’t know how you managed to stay so respectful and calm; you are an inspiration and model for us all.

    Lilley clearly owes you an apology. His behavior and actions were completely inappropriate. In fact, he should be removed from that position.

  20. Cynical says:

    Is it in any way possible to take this kind of crap to the CRTC? What a bunch of wankers. Good for you, Warren. I’d have been reduced to frothing, incoherent rage in this situation.

  21. I believe Lilley is in fact a free speech advocate, but only when the speaker shares his views. When he agrees with the speaker, I truly believe he’ll fight for that person’s right to free speech. However this video shoes how he deals with differing opinion stated clearly, logically and accurately; that’s where he must silence the opinion.

    His support for free speech is clearly fake, and this video proves it. I agree with the other commenter; Lilley was completely owned in this. Nice job keeping it real.

  22. gec says:

    Brian Lilley is a corporate slave ….. he has no pride in himself and embarrasses his family everytime he opens his mouth. He will do anything for money. Canadians ..be aware …. the fascists are at the door desperate to silence any and all voices who dont agree with their radical extremist agenda. Anyone who votes Tory is a radical and must be called out for what they really are.

    • Philip says:

      Kinda shot yourself in the foot, didn’t you, old bean.

      • Philip says:

        Nope. I do see the value in irony though.
        I don’t think I ever want to be in so dark a place in my life that upon looking over the candidates in the 2011 Election, Stephen Harper would get my vote. Each of us cope with misfortune in our own way.

  23. Riaz Khan says:

    Mr. Kinsella:

    I dont like to tell people what they should or should not do but if I were you, I will demand an apology and until it comes, no more column for the Sun. You were a class act and he was not. There is a way to debate the issue. But then again, I am not surprised. This is how these guys operate. Greetings from Abu-Dhai.

  24. Mike says:

    The way Lilley treated you implies that, on his part, oral and anal ARE the same thing! Warren, way to stand up to Lilley’s “I want a Senate seat like Mike Duffy” psycho babble.

  25. Alex Cameron says:

    The whole thing is framed up that parents don’t support teaching kids anal sex.

    It’s a good thing you were there to make the whole thing credible. BRAVO!!

    WTFWYT?

    Go back and get kicked off the show.

  26. Ben Dover says:

    Expert spin as usual, Kinsella, but it was YOU that was suppressing the free expression of ideas with a firehose of verbal diarrhea.

    By your “logic”, the aboriginal custom of the talking stick, which allowed ONE person at a time to talk freely (as Mr. Lilley was attempting) and therefore allowed EVERYONE to have his say, was “suppression of free speech”!!

    • Warren says:

      You’re an idiot. Free speechy enough for you?

      • Ben Dover says:

        Absolutely, shows you have no logical retort whatsoever, thanks for playing.

        • Jon Adams says:

          Someone who uses the term “verbal diarrhea” under the alias “Ben Dover” demands a logical retort. WK may utilize “expert spin,” but I don’t think there’s a human being alive that can put a bow tie on a dog’s ass. AND YES I’M WARREN KINSELLA POSING UNDER AN ALIAS YOU TOWER OF WITTICISM.

    • smelter rat says:

      Hey numbnuts, did you even watch the interview, or are you just spewing your talking points?

      • Ben Dover says:

        Another content-free reply (does not address the point regarding the talking stick at all), is that you using an alias, Warren?

        • smelter rat says:

          Says the guy using an alias. Fuck off. And no, I’m not Warren.

        • Pomojen says:

          I’ll address your talking stick point. Had there been such a stick and had WK been holding it and saying things that Mr. Lilley-Livered didn’t like, he’d have taken the talking stick away. Do you get it now?

          Watch the tape again. You are either delusional or Brian Lilley…or a paid schmuck.

    • James Bow says:

      It’s only free speech if people agree with me. Otherwise people are trying to shut me up with their logical arguments.

    • Philip MacCavity says:

      Lilley just couldnt handle that Mr. Kinsella was getting the better of him, so he stifled him by cutting of his mike……
      It was unprofessional, and disrespectful behaviour by Mr. Lilley…..and he owes Mr. Kinsella an apology….
      As always from these right wing neandertals, freedom of the press truly belongs to those who own one, or in the case of broadcasting and freedom of speech, those who control the microphone…..

  27. James Bow says:

    Warren,

    Good on you for standing up on this, and I think your read on the motivations, here, is absolutely correct. The fact that some people are raising a stink again about sex education in response to an anti-bullying bill tells me that they’re not focusing on the merits or flaws of the bill, but they’re trying to rally parents to their side by playing to their fears.

    As a father of two daughters, I am fundamentally offended that these people are trying to manipulate my emotions by way of my daughters. They can go to hell.

  28. John Luft says:

    You leftist clowns can dish it out but can’t take it. Waaaa…..waaaaa.

    • Philip says:

      You honestly don’t have an A game to bring, do you?

    • Pomojen says:

      How can anything in this story be conceptualized as lefties not being able to take it? Who cut off the mic? Who? What a stupid comment,

      • Philip says:

        @pomojen: exactly! Individually, I recognize those words Mr. Luft has used but not in the context of Warren’s post. The “Waaaa……. waaaaa” at the end, just managed to avoid hitting the right note, a touch OTT in my opinion. However we take what we can get I suppose.

  29. MC says:

    Well done. Your entirely reasonable, just–tired-of-this-nonsense tone was spot on. Don’t know how you can work for that organization, though doing so probably offers some valuable up-close insights into how they operate.

  30. Patrick Deberg says:

    Ben Dover and the many others that read this site,

    Brian Lilley is a liar. He uses a survey not a poll and a highly flawed one at that. He tries to pass it off as a majority approved document and flusters when he is caught in a lie. He cuts off a speaker when he is caught out manipulating his lie to full effect. He is in essence a waterbearer for the angry white crowd that think we are stealing their Christmas. We have never been stealing your Christmas, love the season and follow the words of scripture as best we can. Since you already know that you need to create a fabricated liberal to feed their fire. So we end up bearing the brunt for all your plans gone wrong by stealing your taxes, Stealing your Christmas, Stealing your guns, destroying society and on and on. The problem generally speaking is we are to nice for retaliation as a rule. Why would we want to? To dive into the mire and poison people with the them against us divisions you are so fond of creating is anathema to us. One major difference is we want to make the country a better place for all who come here while for you it seems to be you want a better country for yourselves. So attacking everyone and cutting off their mikes and voices is an effective tool to further your goals. Our reason for tolerance for all kids in Schools is we want to allow a kid to drudge their way through with out having to beat a bully or be driven to fight physically to stop the attacks. And we don’t want to have to cut down one of our kids hanging from a rafter because you feel he or she “promoted” a gay lifestyle. Here is a truth you need to comprehend. You have a nasty underbelly in you tribe that does not exist in ours. They sneak out at night to cut brake lines and paint crosshairs and threaten our grandmothers with letters in the mailbox because they get a kick out of it. So when the Brian Lilleys of the world shout over everyone with the mistaken idea if they lie enough, or mislead with made up facts, some of us will retire. But some of us will retaliate. Warren Kinsella is not Marg Gillis. He will bite back and the only thing you can do to hide the truth is cover his mouth. Every conservative should be ashamed of what they have been reduced at this time by the actions of their frontrunners but sadly you seem not. With every lie you tell and fact you distort you create another Kinsella. And by God hear me. Next election you will be naked in the eyes of all Canadians to your intent and we will be bringing the fire to you.

  31. Robert Gerard says:

    You and Lilley kill me! Still forced to interview each other because no one else wants to burn their credibility by appearing on the Peladeau gong show! Whatever happened to nature abhoring a vacuum? You deserve each other!

  32. frmr disgruntled Con now happy Lib says:

    Mr. Kinsella, having just viewed the exchange, it would be a cold day in hell before I would condescend to go on Mr. Lilley’s program again……but of course, if you did that the trogs would have scored a victory……but good on you for maintaining your cool……youre a better person than I……
    As a gay man I agree that these issues of sexuality would be better left til kids are a little older…..but from what I gathered in the exchange, that is what Mr. McGuinty is proposing…..
    Anyways, I think Lilley owes you an apology….but I guess that will be a cold day in hell too……

  33. Olmanhall says:

    I couldn’t watch the whole thing and I don’t live in Ontario. Who is this asshole Brian Lilley anyway? Some Bill O’Riley wannabe? If this is an example of Sun TV they can put it where the sun don’t shine!

  34. kingston says:

    Hi Warren,, First, Merry Christmas,, Well I do not agree with what Brian did with cutting you off, I do think that you might be cherry picking your quote concerning the question about does the School have to inform you,, it clearly doesnt not and I use your own link to find it on Page nine and ten, I include it for you review,

    Should Schools Send Notes Or Permission Slips Home Before Starting Any Classroom Work About Curricular Issues That May Involve Discussions About Discrimination and Harassment?

    No. The TDSB Equity Foundation Statement and Commitments to Equity Policy Implementation states that each school has a responsibly to education that reflects the diversity of its students and their life experiences. Singling out one group or topic area as too controversial, and depending
    © 2011 TDSB Equitable and Inclusive Schools 9

    Challenging Homophobia and Heterosexism Setting the Context

    upon parent/guardian/caregiver discretion, shifts this responsibility from the school to the parents/ guardians/caregivers and fosters a poisoned environment contrary to the TDSB Human Rights Policy.

    Sending a school newsletter home at the beginning of each term is a best practice for keeping parents/guardians/caregivers informed of all upcoming equity topics in the classroom without having to single out one topic over the other.

    Should Schools Send Notes Or Permission Slips Home Before Starting any Classroom Work On LGBTQ Issues?

    No. If a school treats the topic of sexual orientation or anti-homophobia work differently from the range of other curriculum topics, this could be construed as discriminatory practice. Anti-homophobia education is mandated in all our schools through the Equity Foundation Statement and Commitments to Equity Policy Implementation, the Human Rights Policy, and the Gender-Based Violence Prevention Policy.

    Too me that says you do not have to inform the parents about the topics but if you feel a need too, you send send it as a general overall view with out breaking it down i.e. this semister we will be covering equity topics in general.

    Again,, the seasons best to you and yours

  35. nez1 says:

    Cons are just that–cons. As in crooks. That hate “activist” government, except when the activism suits their purposes. They do have their talking points, though. They love their freedom, like Homer Simpson loves a warm beer on a cold Christmas morning—-except when it does not suit their usually narrow agenda.(Hi, Gord! Hope you’re not reading this while you’re driving…but that would be an infringement on your rights, correct? Not to mention that distracted drivers help you make money, right?) And, they do vote. En masse.

  36. Bill says:

    I’m right wing on majority of issues, However I agree Warren was not treated right in this interview. The debate should have been about age and topics.

  37. GPAlta says:

    There isn’t very much room for debate on Sun’s motives or those of the social conservatives on this. It is strictly power. To retain the power they feel they hold over society, they have to prevent that power from being taken away from them. They can’t let people be educated about homosexuality because that would result in tolerance of homosexuals which would take away one more scapegoat that they could use to attract votes from intolerant voters, which they can turn into profits for their corrupt friends in business. They can’t let people be educated about contraception because that would reduce (and currently is reducing) the number of unplanned pregnancies, which would reduce (and currently is reducing) the number of abortions
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/canadas-teen-birth-and-abortion-rate-drops-by-369-per-cent/article1581673/
    which would take away another wedge issue that they could use to attract votes.

    Let’s face it, if they will fight tooth and nail against the ONLY measure–sex ed– that has ever succeeded in reducing the rate of abortions, that means that they would rather take power at the cost of causing more abortions than allow fewer abortions at the cost of giving up power.

    They would rather take power at the cost of denying rights and freedoms to gays and lesbians than allow universal human rights and freedoms at the cost of giving up power.

    The same logic can be applied to their approach to aboriginal issues, gun issues, justice issues, and women’s issues (remember that they have de-funded dozens of women’s charities): they would rather restore their own power than do what is right.

    I used to wonder if they were evil or stupid, but at the very top, where the power and the money are, they (Hudak, Harper, Kent, QMI) are unquestionably evil.

  38. Brody Thomson says:

    Boo Hoo loudmouth dumbass

  39. albertaclipper says:

    Aaahhh but will we see Lilley’s reason Dec.22/2011 on your blog?

    I doubt it.

  40. Trish says:

    Warren, free speech is protected, being rude isn’t and you were extremely rude. You were so intent on staying on course with the scripted response that you were NOT listening to Brian Lilley. With regard to the evil comment, you might want to take a look in the mirror. All the things that you say about those on the right can be thrown back in the left face and you are just as guilty, if not more.

    • Trish says:

      The evil part was directed to GPAlta, not you Warren. Sorry for that.

      • GPAlta says:

        Ho could my examples be thrown back at me?

        Liberals have reduced the numbers of abortions consistently while Conservatives have tried to increase them by trying to stop sex education, Liberals have increased the freedom of homosexuals by allowing them to marry, while Conservatives have sought to deny them rights and to create a moral panic about them through false information like this poll, Liberals have dramatically reduced the number of gun deaths both by homicide and suicide, while Conservatives have worked to increase the number of kids killing themselves with guns for their own political gain, Liberals have built the most successful criminal justice system in the world and brought the crime rate down consistently while Conservatives are working to re-model it in the image of the least successful (but most profitable) system in the world (the USA’s), Liberals created some hope in the aboriginal community with treaties and accords that the Conservatives have since killed, and Liberals never attacked charities serving vulnerable women, they supported them, but the Conservatives have attempted to destroy community services for women, not to mention spreading paternalism worldwide with their anti-abortion women’s health initiative.

        Face it, the Liberals did what was right, and the Conservatives did what was wrong. The cynical, power-grabbing, hate spreading, and human life ruining party has power as its reward, and you think there’s nothing evil about that? I hope you’re at least getting paid for your support, because their friends in business sure are.

    • Philip says:

      Nice to see the SUNTv shut-in brigade could navigate their way over to this site. I can only hope we can be treated to more badly written homilies and braying laughter, leavened with those old chestnuts: “leftard”, “Lieberal” and “commie pinko”.
      Good times.

      • Jon Powers says:

        Only if you “progressives” treat us with those old chestnuts: “redneck”, “knuckle dragger”, and “bigot”. Merry Christmas to all! Except to the progressives. I’ll wish them Happy Holidays, so as not to offend.

        • Philip says:

          Really?
          We progressive folks started name calling first? That’s some weak sauce you have run up. Keep holding on to your victim status, if that’s what helps you get by.

          Merry Christmas Jon. I didn’t want you to think I missed your little dig at the end.

        • pomojen says:

          @Philip, just because I can’t reply directly to you…

          They always use the same defense of “they did it first”. Even when they’ve howled about the universal immorality or general awfulness of what they allege was done first to them. None of it is so awful when they do it. By con-trolling standards, there is no absolute wrong action out there that can’t be made right by 1) finding any evidence at all that someone else did it first 2) aiming an otherwise dubious, unethical action at their scary “enemies”.

  41. Darren K says:

    I think you did well to control your temper.

    Isn’t Lilly the guy who got caught in a lie the first week on air about Ignatief? Thankfully, Bell Xpressvu dropped Sun early in the game. I understand they will return in the new year.

    I know you like a good fight. It was a good one.

    Merry Christmas. I hope you have a great 2012!

  42. Kadri scores…Leafs win…

  43. Brian says:

    Well played Warren.

  44. Sandra MacKay says:

    Oh my God that was painful to watch, but that’s because Sun News Network is painful to watch. Their broadcasters SCREAM AT YOU. They are uneducated morons. I wish Warren would stop associating with them, he’s far too classy for the likes of them. I would have lost it with Lilly baby a long time ago.

  45. LeftTard RightTard says:

    LeftTards vs. RightTards

    You guys should put on a charity MMA Fight benefit with the winners charity getting the winnings.

    Main Event: Warren Kinsella vs. Brian Lilley

    Wouldn’t solve anything but at least it may be entertaining.

  46. Tom says:

    Well if this forum is going to try to be balanced. Watch the video on this link to see what Brian Lilley was getting at.

    http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featured/prime-time/867432237001/the-truth-hurts/1342945621001

  47. Glen says:

    All the Brian Lilley stuff aside, this was a great post Warren.

    Put the kids first and forget all the BS and politics.

  48. Rob says:

    Warren,

    Will you be a true advocate of Free Speech and post the update?

    You can find it here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9XwREh0diM&feature=player_embedded#!

    After all you asked us to decide for ourselves.

    • Warren says:

      Yeah, and you’ve got a real open mind, pal.

      Anyway, Brian Lilley called me yesterday and expressed his sentiments for losing his cool. It was good of him to do so.

      • Bill Schultz says:

        Warren, I am onside with Sex education for our children and in the interview I agree it looks bad for Brian Lilley, However after seeing his update with the info to back what he was saying I must say I can not disagree with some of his conclusions. I consider my views to be very centred. I like progress where it is needed to improve and tradition where it is not broken. This seems to be progress for progress sake and that I can not agree with. (not to mention it seems to infringe parents rights) I would like to hear what you have to say on the passages from the teaching manual that he is quoting to backup the poll questions. After seeing his update it would appear that in the interview you were slanting the facts, I don’t think that was your intent so to hear the rest of the story from your point of view would be welcomed.

    • SandraTheLoonieLefty says:

      Hey Rob..here’s my response..this video is dedicated to you and your Sun News friends
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs&ob=av3e

  49. Bill Schultz says:

    Perhaps you can go back on his show to debate this. Or better yet get together with him in a neutral location record your debate and post it on UTube with links on your site and his etc.

  50. Rob says:

    It would seem my mind is a little more open than yours. Thanks for the sarcastic remark, maybe the next time your on Brians show, try not to spin it so hard.

    Wan’t to really impress your readers of whom I am one – post his response, lets see how liberal you really are 🙂

  51. schicK says:

    I NEVER SEEN LIBERALS CRYING LIKE WARREN IDIOT. he refuse to show how lilly is wrong. he kept talking like an idiots liberals. LIBERALS WANT TO TEACH KIDS AT AGE OF “3” if they are homosexual lol. IF THEY WERE IN MUSLIM COUNTRY THEY WERE GOING TO BE STONE TO DEATH next day. stop this liberals stupid madness and give them 0 seat in next election. LOOK LIKE LIBERALS GOING TO LOOSE 100% islamic vote next election who they kiss ass to get into parliament. STUPID LIBERALS LIKE WAREN NEVER LEARN THAT ISLAMIC IMMIGRATION HATE HOMOSEXUALS. LIBERALS “LET KIDS TO BE KIDS” and don’t play political game with kids before you get hurts . i am from asia and i don’t want ANY LIBERALS TEACHERS TELLING ME KIDS IF THEY ARE GAY OR NOT. it’s not going to be nice.

  52. Tim says:

    The real crux of Lilley’s “statistics” and those who object to diversity in sex education is the erroneous assumption that gay people are “the other” and separate from “us”. The question to throw back at these homophobes, and yes Lilley, that’s exactly what you are, is where the fuck do you think gay people come from, only liberal families? No, they also come from right wing families and are part of the “us” not “them”. It’s incredibly stupid to think that some of these objecting parents also too, would have gay children, it just may take them longer to find out due to the irrational fear perpetuated in their homes and churches.

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