You know, this could be a good thing. This ‘pure’ Quebec crap should be exposed for the disgusting racism it is…..and if a lot of francophones have their feelings hurt for being called racist assholes, too fucking bad. Good luck trying to occupy the moral high ground on this one.
uh, not so much anymore. Fact is that Anglo Saxons adopted the Liberalism of the French Revolution more wholeheartedly than the French themselves. Protecting minorities from prospective ‘dictatorship of the majority’ is a bedrock value of Anglo culture. The point here is that liberal values are NOT a central part of Quebec culture. It is pretty sad that a robust culture like Quebecs does not believe it is valuable enough to survive exposure to ‘others’. I mean, seriously, what possible outcome justifies threatening people with the iron fist of the state for expressing their religion? You do not need a political science degree to know that this is a policy for, and by racists. It certainly does not perform any valid function whatsoever other than express disgust with people who are ‘different’
You have to take into consideration a particularly Quebec-centric element — la grande noirceur and being under the thumb of the Church for centuries. Some people recoil instinctively simply at the idea of displaying religious symbols because of this previous societal context.
What does THAT mean? I am francophone. I don’t support the law. I will argue against it everywhere I go. So, I don’t like being called a “racist asshole”. And, your message to me is “too fucking bad”? I wonder who the real racist is?
It will never exist in a minority legislation, nor will it fire up the electorate here in the province. The big story will be Harper eliminating a ballooning $26+billion deficit in less than 2 years without raising taxes.
I’m not so sure about that. That is probably true for small towns and rural regions, but not Montreal. I am francophone and I have big problems with this law. Among my acquaintances — work colleagues, friends, etc — not one supports this crap. Not one. The PQ is catering to its base. But neither the CAQ nor the Liberals support it.
Just curious if crucifix’s would be allowed to remain in Catholic hospitals and schools?…..Apparently the large crucifix in the National Assembly will be allowed to remain on “historical” grounds.
If this ridiculous law passes, if I were a visible minority, Id demand those symbols go too….
Quite a few years back, a number of BC Legions tried to ban turban wearing Sikhs from entering, for not removing their “headgear”(which is a symbol of a baptized Orthodox Sikh’s faith…It is also used to keep a Orthodox Sikh’s hair tidy, as not cutting their hair is another tenet of their faith)
The ban was purely based on racism…..as Legion members seemed to have forgotten the thousands of turbaned Sikhs who fought valiantly for the Allies in both World Wars.
Fortunately the Legion eventually saw the error of their ways.
Something tells me the PQ wont be as progressive on this issue.
I don’t support the idea of using a sledgehammer to solve this.
In a government poll leaked to La Presse, 70% favour adopting a law to deal with this. However, only a third of respondents believe a public servant wearing a religious symbol won’t be able to do his or her job in a neutral manner.
I support the approach taken by the Bouchard-Taylor Commission.
What a great country this is what with the good Fathers of Confederation agreeing that property and civil rights would be left to the provinces. And with that, eventually develops a social consensus in a given jurisdiction. Now you have your answer. Happens all the time from one end of the land to the other.
Not quite given up — the Tories hope to regain their old Quebec City seats, and seem to be in a decent position to do it — La Presse just published a poll showing them at 38% in that region, which would have a few of those seats go blue again.
But getting more than 10 seats in Quebec is very unlikely for them.
Anyway, Quebeckers are voting against the Conservatives on ideological grounds, not nationhood. Which is, again, a step forward. The national grievances are off the table. (For now.) And Harper can absolutely skate to a second majority using Ontario and the West — that’s my prediction for the next election, actually.
(All of these messages were threaded — not just mine, but others’ — but one participant in them has presumably been banned. So the threading broke down…)
Actually, Justin and Mulcair were born in Ottawa. Justin is only one-quarter Quebecois descent. What’s your point!? And are you actually suggesting he would fail to champion the Charter, as our illustrious PM has failed to do without fail? In fact, Harper didn’t want to commemorate the anniversary of the Charter because he didn’t want to irritate Quebec or the memory of Rene Levesque.
Warren: I have read that the definition of insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different result every time. Well the PQ is officially gone insane! I do not say it out spite, they lost their marbles trying to fire up a Québec population who is no longer attracted or even interested in secession. So they try identity politics which have backfired and this will be the biggest failure. Let me recap: they try to fire up by getting the OPLF (the language ayatollahs) to crack down on Italian pasta menus. International outrage and ridicule of Québec force them to back down. Then the fiasco of the soccer turbans: they put their weight betting that FIFA will ignore the issue for months: FIFA rules immediately against them and Québec is again the laughing stock of the world. So, now they are betting that forcing to take down the Jewish General Hospital, forcing Muslim women to give up their hijabs on daycare centres and jewish men their yamulkes if they work for schools will not bring the wrath of the whole world on Québec? Come on! I give it two days for massive protests outside the Québec delegation in New York, Congressional hearings into boycotting Québec lumber in Washington and burning the Maple Leaf (sorry Secessionists nobody knows it is your DISTINCT NATIONAL biggotry) in Lahore, Dhaka Karachi and Jakarta. After so much international outrage, the PQ will find out Quebecers who used to support their law now will say to pollsters they always opposed it. Poor Bernard Drainville, he might need a straightjacket come spring!
The PQ are most likely sending this up as a trial balloon although it might be argued the soccer/head gear was that balloon. No religious gear in the work place? Well there goes the neighbourhood. Many professionals in Quebec may decide to up and leave. Wonder what that will do for their economy?
The P.Q.’s suggestion does sound a tad racist and contrary to the national policy of freedom of religion and multi culturalism. So after the P.Q. has “gotten rid” of all the reglious gear, what are they going to do next? Get rid of people of colour because they will argue the “pure wool crew” were all originally of caucasian descent. of course there still is the question of how the P.Q. will deal with the First Nations people when they wear their religious symbols. Like they were here first. Perhaps the First Nations ought to ask the P.Q. to remove all symbols of christianity, given the trouble it created for the First Nations.
the P.Q. ought to stay with governing the province and do what most provincial governments try to do; provide health care, education, housing, roads, police services, you know the stuff people voted a government into office for, running a province in a better manner than the other party. It wasn’t to “eliminate” anything that wasn’t “pure wool”.
You know, this could be a good thing. This ‘pure’ Quebec crap should be exposed for the disgusting racism it is…..and if a lot of francophones have their feelings hurt for being called racist assholes, too fucking bad. Good luck trying to occupy the moral high ground on this one.
With all due respect, there is a lot of ‘pure’ WASP attitude in this country as well.
uh, not so much anymore. Fact is that Anglo Saxons adopted the Liberalism of the French Revolution more wholeheartedly than the French themselves. Protecting minorities from prospective ‘dictatorship of the majority’ is a bedrock value of Anglo culture. The point here is that liberal values are NOT a central part of Quebec culture. It is pretty sad that a robust culture like Quebecs does not believe it is valuable enough to survive exposure to ‘others’. I mean, seriously, what possible outcome justifies threatening people with the iron fist of the state for expressing their religion? You do not need a political science degree to know that this is a policy for, and by racists. It certainly does not perform any valid function whatsoever other than express disgust with people who are ‘different’
Bluegreenblogger,
You have to take into consideration a particularly Quebec-centric element — la grande noirceur and being under the thumb of the Church for centuries. Some people recoil instinctively simply at the idea of displaying religious symbols because of this previous societal context.
What does THAT mean? I am francophone. I don’t support the law. I will argue against it everywhere I go. So, I don’t like being called a “racist asshole”. And, your message to me is “too fucking bad”? I wonder who the real racist is?
It will never exist in a minority legislation, nor will it fire up the electorate here in the province. The big story will be Harper eliminating a ballooning $26+billion deficit in less than 2 years without raising taxes.
I’m not so sure about that. That is probably true for small towns and rural regions, but not Montreal. I am francophone and I have big problems with this law. Among my acquaintances — work colleagues, friends, etc — not one supports this crap. Not one. The PQ is catering to its base. But neither the CAQ nor the Liberals support it.
Just curious if crucifix’s would be allowed to remain in Catholic hospitals and schools?…..Apparently the large crucifix in the National Assembly will be allowed to remain on “historical” grounds.
If this ridiculous law passes, if I were a visible minority, Id demand those symbols go too….
Quite a few years back, a number of BC Legions tried to ban turban wearing Sikhs from entering, for not removing their “headgear”(which is a symbol of a baptized Orthodox Sikh’s faith…It is also used to keep a Orthodox Sikh’s hair tidy, as not cutting their hair is another tenet of their faith)
The ban was purely based on racism…..as Legion members seemed to have forgotten the thousands of turbaned Sikhs who fought valiantly for the Allies in both World Wars.
Fortunately the Legion eventually saw the error of their ways.
Something tells me the PQ wont be as progressive on this issue.
Warren,
I don’t support the idea of using a sledgehammer to solve this.
In a government poll leaked to La Presse, 70% favour adopting a law to deal with this. However, only a third of respondents believe a public servant wearing a religious symbol won’t be able to do his or her job in a neutral manner.
I support the approach taken by the Bouchard-Taylor Commission.
JimB,
What a great country this is what with the good Fathers of Confederation agreeing that property and civil rights would be left to the provinces. And with that, eventually develops a social consensus in a given jurisdiction. Now you have your answer. Happens all the time from one end of the land to the other.
JimB,
Theoretically, they could but would it not go before HRTO with possible input from OHRC as an intervenor?
As for federal politicians, sure they might have something to say.
JimB. In fact, Justin did peep…and pretty loudly at that. As for Harper and Mulcair, they were hiding somewhere in the bushes. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/doctor-warns-quebec-youll-lose-us-with-headwear-ban-220561151.html
There is a cultural divide on a few issues, yes.
Considering that the 2011 general election could not inaccurately be described as a national landslide that Quebec opted out of? I guess.
(CPC hit 48% of vote in ROC, 68% of seats — not quite Mulroney ’84 numbers, but pretty close…)
But on the other hand, Quebec is voting primarily for federalist parties now, so that’s a step forward…
Not quite given up — the Tories hope to regain their old Quebec City seats, and seem to be in a decent position to do it — La Presse just published a poll showing them at 38% in that region, which would have a few of those seats go blue again.
But getting more than 10 seats in Quebec is very unlikely for them.
Anyway, Quebeckers are voting against the Conservatives on ideological grounds, not nationhood. Which is, again, a step forward. The national grievances are off the table. (For now.) And Harper can absolutely skate to a second majority using Ontario and the West — that’s my prediction for the next election, actually.
(All of these messages were threaded — not just mine, but others’ — but one participant in them has presumably been banned. So the threading broke down…)
Actually, Justin and Mulcair were born in Ottawa. Justin is only one-quarter Quebecois descent. And
Actually, Justin and Mulcair were born in Ottawa. Justin is only one-quarter Quebecois descent. What’s your point!? And are you actually suggesting he would fail to champion the Charter, as our illustrious PM has failed to do without fail? In fact, Harper didn’t want to commemorate the anniversary of the Charter because he didn’t want to irritate Quebec or the memory of Rene Levesque.
Warren: I have read that the definition of insanity is repeating the same action expecting a different result every time. Well the PQ is officially gone insane! I do not say it out spite, they lost their marbles trying to fire up a Québec population who is no longer attracted or even interested in secession. So they try identity politics which have backfired and this will be the biggest failure. Let me recap: they try to fire up by getting the OPLF (the language ayatollahs) to crack down on Italian pasta menus. International outrage and ridicule of Québec force them to back down. Then the fiasco of the soccer turbans: they put their weight betting that FIFA will ignore the issue for months: FIFA rules immediately against them and Québec is again the laughing stock of the world. So, now they are betting that forcing to take down the Jewish General Hospital, forcing Muslim women to give up their hijabs on daycare centres and jewish men their yamulkes if they work for schools will not bring the wrath of the whole world on Québec? Come on! I give it two days for massive protests outside the Québec delegation in New York, Congressional hearings into boycotting Québec lumber in Washington and burning the Maple Leaf (sorry Secessionists nobody knows it is your DISTINCT NATIONAL biggotry) in Lahore, Dhaka Karachi and Jakarta. After so much international outrage, the PQ will find out Quebecers who used to support their law now will say to pollsters they always opposed it. Poor Bernard Drainville, he might need a straightjacket come spring!
The PQ are most likely sending this up as a trial balloon although it might be argued the soccer/head gear was that balloon. No religious gear in the work place? Well there goes the neighbourhood. Many professionals in Quebec may decide to up and leave. Wonder what that will do for their economy?
The P.Q.’s suggestion does sound a tad racist and contrary to the national policy of freedom of religion and multi culturalism. So after the P.Q. has “gotten rid” of all the reglious gear, what are they going to do next? Get rid of people of colour because they will argue the “pure wool crew” were all originally of caucasian descent. of course there still is the question of how the P.Q. will deal with the First Nations people when they wear their religious symbols. Like they were here first. Perhaps the First Nations ought to ask the P.Q. to remove all symbols of christianity, given the trouble it created for the First Nations.
the P.Q. ought to stay with governing the province and do what most provincial governments try to do; provide health care, education, housing, roads, police services, you know the stuff people voted a government into office for, running a province in a better manner than the other party. It wasn’t to “eliminate” anything that wasn’t “pure wool”.
Now what do you have to say Jim? Has the governing party said anything about the proposed law?
Tiger,
It depends. Think back to the days of Mes chers amis when he first took off in Quebec and Ontario quickly followed.
That was 1984 — not exactly Turner’s best year.