01.15.2017 09:08 PM

Trump calls NATO “obsolete”


Still think you should defend him, conservatives?

If you do, you’re as seditious and as dangerous as he is. 

“[NATO is] obsolete, first because it was designed many, many years ago,” Trump said in the Bild version of the interview.


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    Richard says:

    This is all so bizarre. Who ever thought we would see the day that an American leader’s prime ambition would be to establish Washington as junior partner to Moscow?

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    P. Brenn says:

    Need NATO – As Obama told us though all members need to pay their share…

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    Richard says:

    Moreover, on 12/22/2016, he tweeted this:
    “The United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability until such time as the world comes to its senses regarding nukes.”

    “For one thing, I think nuclear weapons should be way down and reduced very substantially.”

    There’s absolutely no coherence ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS POLICY from the man who in less than a week will be President.

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    jay says:

    Trump is three years older than Nato. What does that make him?

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    Charlie says:

    To be fair, there are many conservatives (Americans) who are very, very critical of Trump. David Frum and John Weaver (Kasich’s Chief of Staff) have been strong voices on the Republican side against the Trumpification of their party. There are other conservatives who are mortified by every single thing Trump has done up til now and including the Russian love-a-thon and dismantling of the American presence on the international stage. Sadly, however, these people are a minority whose voice is drowned out by the sycophants.

    Having said that, the number of spine-less hypocrites who identify themselves as “conservative” and support/placate a man who is currently shitting all over the very things they claim to cherish is staggering.

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      Charlie says:


      Because at the end of the day, Americans are Americans and Russians are Russians. For some reason, Republicans seems to be very comfortable with borderline treason if it means sticking it to those on the other side of the aisle.

      Its increasingly harder and harder to portray this scenario in a way that doesn’t make Trump-admiring Republicans look like traitors. Which, I know is a strong term, but how else would one describe this kind prostituting of integrity?

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    harvey bushell says:

    We’ll see what TrumPee wants to replace NATO with but if his idea to replace Obamacare is any
    indication it won’t be pretty (but could be profitable. For him).


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    Terence Quinn says:

    This is just more proof to me that Trump has a soft spot for Putin and thinks he can make him a friend of the west. Dream away Donald

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      Ronald O'Dowd says:


      I suspect this heightened bromance has far more to do with his corporate taxes and investments in Russia than anything else.

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    Lance says:

    And Turkey as a NATO member? Really?

    NATO in it’s current form is obsolete. Thst, however, doesn’t mean we need a NATO.

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      Lance says:

      Sorry, that should read “it doesn’t mean we don’t need a NATO”.

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      Miles Lunn says:

      I agree that Turkey under Erdogan is no longer a liberal democracy and if that is a requirement for NATO, then they don’t meet it. It is unfortunate as for a long time Turkey was an example of how Islam could co-exist with a secular liberal democracy, but unfortunately their current leader is an authoritarian one, in many ways like Putin and Trump. Much like Trump, he does very well amongst the uneducated while amongst the educated he is loathed like Trump is. Hopefully though Turkey can get rid of him and move back to being a liberal democracy as they could be a key ally in the Middle East. They should also cancel their EU membership application. They can re-apply when they stop jailing journalist and allow a free speech and a free press and improve their human rights record. Merkel has already said their membership application will be cancelled if they re-introduce capital punishment (Erdogan is for this while EU is unequovically against it).

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    bluegreenblogger says:

    Just how is it that the President Elect imagines all these things are going to happen? It is peculiar to be reading the confused words of a President Elect, and wondering just who has Lithuania’s back? What is the fate of Moldova to be? Will Germany even defend themselves against from Russia without the USA’s nuclear deterrent? The President Elects answer to all three questions are likely: Nobody has Lithuania’s back, Moldova will fall into eternal darkness, and Germany will become a Russian Satellite. Which is bizarre, talk about tail wagging dog! Germany should NEVER have banked on America’s honour. (and neither should we). That America’s Empire is over is kind of un-avoidable. It was rooted in the organisations that the President Elect has targeted. NATO, the WTO, the World Bank & IMF, & the UN. Note they are all multi-lateral. They will not morph into uni-lateral very readily, so they really are likely to die. The Senate, in theory, could act as a check, or balance to the President Elect’s Foreign Policy. But is that really in the cards? Can they full on obstruct and deflect? I think maybe, but not likely? So a transactional President Elect intends to spend the USA’s capital squeezing one former ally at a time, starting with Mexico, and Canada. There will be no friends and allies left inside a very short time frame. NATO, the WTO and the UN will stop doing what America tells them to, and by default a New World Dis-Order begins, lol. Everybody ELSE in the World has read their History books, the President Elect should not expect much fearful toeing of his red lines. Peace in our Time’ is not going to fly this time around. How many World leaders want to go down in History as the new Chamberlain? Starting with Mexico and Canada, The World is already primed to say ‘NO’.
    Did you see the ‘news’ that the President Elect wants to do a ‘deal’ with Putin in Reykjavik? I actually laughed long and hard. Yeah sure, they will scribble out a disarmament deal on napkins next week, and then out-do Reagan and Gorbachov? Shaking my head, is this kindergarten? The problematic START II was built on years of talks and exploratory meetings. It is, after all, the acknowledged route to global destruction, worth a bit more than a napkin treaty, sandwiched in between hour long interviews with Bild, in the week or two before inauguration. But I guess we shall have to get used to incoherence. The President elect has a very very BROAD agenda. He is going to run into a lot of brick walls starting next week. In a way, we should be grateful that he tweets every mosquito bite. His reactions to every little roadblock are going to be EPIC!

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    merrill smith says:

    The USA was designed many, many years ago. It too must be obsolete.

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    Miles Lunn says:

    NATO may have looked obsolete in the mid 90s before Putin came about, but not so much now. The Baltics combined only have 6 million people, but Putin would love to get his hands on them as of the former USSR countries, they are by far the most prosperous. I was there this past August and most people were terrified of a Trump win for this reason. Interestingly enough the Baltics are in many ways quite conservative as they all have a flat tax, the governments have strongly pro free market policies which conservatives tend to like and unlike neighbouring Russia, they have free and fair elections, a free press (which Trumpians hate), and relatively low levels of corruption. Some people forget in November of 1989, Putin was stationed in East Germany and while most of us in the West celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall, Putin was devastated and ever since has wanted to rebuild Russia’s greatness. He doesn’t like Trump because he agrees with him, he likes him as he sees him as someone he can easily push around. That doesn’t mean though all Republicans agree with him. One Republican who has long been a critic of Putin is John McCain and unlike some in the party he has stayed true to this even with Trump’s election.

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    Chi Town Pete says:

    Actually, the U.S. needs to completely withdraw from NATO. We’ve been subsidizing Europe’s defense for years (much like the same way the western provinces in Canada subsidizes the Ontario and Quebec swells with relatively cheap energy). You know, the same hard working people you denigrate on a daily basis! Canada withdrew her military forces from NATO back in the late 60s so I find it totally amusing that the left crying their crocodile tears over the fate of European defense policy that they never wanted to fund in the first place.

    Maybe there is still a need for NATO but a European one without Uncle Sam picking up the tab. Even General (later President) Eisenhower didn’t imagine a NATO alliance after ten years when Europe could get back on her feet economically and with the end of the Cold War, Europe’s professional politicians with a few Americans still somehow need to make NATO relevant (especially when Uncle Sucker…oops I mean Uncle Sam) continues to provide the materiel, personnel, the financial wherewithal and then catches the potential European bullets. Boy, are we Yanks lucky or what?

    Since Europe will always fight to the last American maybe the courageous Canucks can step forward to fill the breach if they’re not too busy with their stupid peacekeeping operations. I mean you really kept the peace in Rwanda didn’t you? And peacekeeping is sooo important to Canada’s vital strategic interests eh?

    That is if your ski bum (and part time drama teacher) Prime Minister actually allocates money to be spent on worthwhile things like military pay, equipment and the like…You know, important stuff! But then again what will you do when won’t have us deplorables to foot the tab anymore?

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      Bill Templeman says:

      Nice, very nice, Chi Town Pete. You have a charming way with allies, sure enough. In one post you manage to piss on all the Canadians who served in Bosnia, Afghanistan and Rwanda. Hillary was right. You are deplorable.

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        Chi Town Pete says:

        Oh gee whiz I’m really hurt…along with the other 60 million deplorable, despicable and nativist (sarc off) Americans who voted for Trump! I haven’t pissed on any Canadians but one has to admit that you didn’t stop the genocide in Rwanda, separated the Bosnians from the Serbs, or stopped the Taliban in Afghanistan (but don’t feel bad…we didn’t either).

        If you are so concerned about NATO then maybe you should return your military contingent to Europe and spend the 2% agreed threshold of GDP on military spending. Then you can lecture us on a coherent defense strategy for combating those evil Russkies. I rather doubt it. The Canadian armed forces are less than the Chicago PD and you sure wouldn’t want to put your money where your mouth is?

        Sorry buddy but we Yanks are getting a little tired of being stuck with the tab but you haven’t done anything militarily spectacular since Vimy and Juno Beach where real Canadians led (and bled) the way. With allies like the current crop of moochers and parasites…we don’t need enemies!

        Or better yet, why don’t you pick up a rifle and go help our allies or even defend your own country?

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      bluegreenblogger says:

      lol, you are every bit as knowledgable as your idol. Lets see how that works out, shall we?

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    Kelly says:

    I don’t think NATO is necessary. The EU should have its own military alliance but that would make it more powerful than the USA and the establishment doesn’t want that, so…

    The idea that Putin wants to reestablish the USSR is patently ridiculous. He has no interest in grabbing the Baltic republics. What he doesn’t want , however, is the United States 100m from its border when Gorbachev was promised NATO wouldn’t expand East. Putin actually wants to develop East, through the Caspian and Siberia to China. These are areas that need infrastructure are resource rich, etc. Russia just wants respect. It’s sick of American Hypocrisy. It’s sick of The US trying to meddle in its affairs. It’s mad the US supported a coup in Ukraine.

    Is Trump crazy? Of course. But that’s a separate issue from whether or not the world needs NATO.

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    daveconstable says:

    Lots of comments here telling us the motives and intentions of Putin and Russia.
    I see it a little differently.
    Putin came up through the bureaucracy, particularly the secret police. Seem sot me he had some admin position in St Petersburg, and did okay there. He has usually struck me as Russian who wants the best for his country, and his foreign policy moves have always looked to me as defending Russia’ interests in its immediate neighbourhood. His approaches to NATO (membership request rejected about 15 years ago), EU (cooperation on gas transport rejected about 9 years ago),toward Shanghai Group, Iran, China and former soviet states along its southern border have always seemed to me to be to strengthen economic and security ties along Russia’s borders.
    As with pretty well all Russians, he cannot have failed to see, after the unilateral removal of Russian missiles form Eastern Europe, the dissolution of Warsaw Pact, and dissolution of USSR, that NATO has not only continued to expand, but to become a major aggressor (NATO had to defend USA from attack by Afghanistan? Give me a break.) Russians see NATO expanding to its western borders, and now, plating missiles, tanks and troops into nations along Russia’s western border. The claims that Russia is on the verge of invading NATO members seems to me absurd (or the result of false propaganda).
    Putin and the United Russia dominated Duma seem to me as right wing as any of its Eastern European neighbours, Warsaw, Budapest, Minsk, Kiev, they all have nationalistic right wing governments. Some of them are in NATO.
    Are we going to do business with people in Asia and East Europe? Or make another war on those people? NATO has the answer.

    On Trump’s sedition:
    In the 1960’s, Martin Luther King often said something like, “The greatest purveyor of violence in the world: My own government; I cannot be silent.”
    For this, MLK was called ‘seditious’ by the New York Times and the Washington Post – and assorted other media and politicians of that decade.

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    Richard says:

    Trump isn’t a conservative. He’s a big government progressive.

    Conservatives don’t oppose liberalized trade. We welcome it.

    Considering my Baltic lineage, comments like Trump’s scare the bejesus out of of me.

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      Miles Lunn says:

      Trump is a narcissist who has changed his position so many times on issues it is tough to know where he stands. Trump cares about one thing and one thing only, which is his own ego.

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