05.27.2019 11:31 AM

Independents day

30 Comments

  1. What’s the endgame here? I respect their decision but where’s the opening for all of us who want to support JWR and JP?

    How can we translate our vote across the country as a message of support for both of them? We are denied that now.

    Certainly not the strategic decision I would have recommended.

    • Luke says:

      Your response sums up how I feel about this. Way over here on the east coast, I was hoping to park my vote with them, if they chose a party. Alas, all that remains after this decision is the usual stuff I didn’t want to vote for. I’m sure running as independents makes sense to them for lots of reasons, but it doesn’t do much of anything for me at this time.

    • Max says:

      The end game here Mr. O’Dowd is to actually do what one often hears from prospective MPs and Prime Minister’s come campaign time – when one says I’m in it not for myself, or my Party, but the people in my community…. and then actually keep your word. She’s offering to represent her Riding based on her naked values and principles and smarts and talents and experiences. Full Stop. (Your previous reference to ‘reintegration with the Liberal Party” and “future Leadership aspirations” under Liberal brand were offensive and narrow-minded.

      While it can’t always be “all about you” Mr. O’Dowd, one bit of advoce to your conundrum of not being able to support Jane and Jody because you can’t vote for them in your riding – as a start, you may want to consider NOT voting Liberal. Let’s start there Sport. And the, let’s wait until the campaign commences and platforms and planks and promises are made, shall we?

      • Max,

        From Mr. O’Dowd to Sport. Quite a demotion.

        • Fred from BC says:

          “From Mr. O’Dowd to Sport. Quite a demotion.”

          It was (and more than a bit too harsh). I think he took your comment, somehow, as being arrogant or entitled…I read it as frustration, and I know how you feel. I’m lucky enough to live in Vancouver Granville and on the right side of the road, too (the other side is a different riding). She may even knock on my door (sorry Ronald…I’m not trying to gloat, really…:)

          • Ronald O'Dowd says:

            Fred,

            Honestly, it’s all three. I’m quite deliberately arrogant because I think Canadians deserve better. In my book, I’m entitled to a party that puts country first, not lying and bullshitting their way into power, above all else. Read the full of shit twins: LPC and CPC. Both of them would sell their souls to keep or get into office. Things are long overdue for drastic change in Ottawa and a JWR and JP line up with the NDP or Greens would have been one hell of a good start.

      • Max,

        That was decided the day JWR and JP were kicked out of caucus. I won’t be voting Liberal.

        You don’t need a platform, or even a campaign, to have had enough with a government. The change agent needs no campaign. All it needs is getting off your ass and voting for it.

        • Max,

          The Conservatives are at least as full of shit as the Liberals. Translation: voting NDP, because the Greens are and will remain nowhere in Quebec.

          As for English Canada, why don’t you vote strategically?

        • Fred from BC says:

          “That was decided the day JWR and JP were kicked out of caucus. I won’t be voting Liberal.”

          I remember you saying just that. I’ll be voting for an independent (JWR) for the first time, and for the same reason….I only wish I could vote for Jane Philpott as well.

          • Ronald O'Dowd says:

            You know Fred, we may have our differences but we all — bottom line — love and are proud of this country. What makes us great is that we listen and respect those we happen to disagree with. We aren’t always practically at each other’s throats like the Yanks.

            Why can’t the fucking parties be a true reflection of that? Why does it always have to be smoke, mirrors and most of all bullshit? I have no great love for any of them but I need a protest vehicle so this time, having run out of realistic options, it’s going to be NDP. But if they do politics like the other two parties: read bozos, it won’t be the NDP the time after that…

          • Fred from BC says:

            “You know Fred, we may have our differences but we all — bottom line — love and are proud of this country.”

            (very well said, Ronald. I’d vote for you, if you ever ran…)

            But sadly, the party system is corrupt to the core, and no one is ever able to keep their soul pure and stay in caucus. I’ve seen a few people (you have too, I know…probably even more) go into politics with good intentions, only to find their idealism stripped from them along with their individuality. It’s a sad state of affairs, but what can we realistically do about it?

            Maybe it’s time to bring back the Rhinoceros Party?

    • WestGuy says:

      Probably the smartest move.
      -Run Independent, win or lose it doesn’t matter as long as Trudeau loses.
      After losing, Trudeau resigns as leader. Leadership campaign launches
      -JWR and/or JP run for leadership. Having run as an independent and not under a different party, they wouldn’t be labeled as political opportunists and Liberals-of-convenience.
      -They frame leadership campaign on transparency, ethics and trust. Either on wins (probably JWR).

      • Doug Brown says:

        Great…..if Trudeau loses. He won’t. All of the federal leaders are weaker than weak. Trudeau has the brand recognition, so he will win. At least JWR and JP only have to wait a few months to find out if their political careers are over.

        • Ronald O'Dowd says:

          Doug,

          You really need to take a look at his repeated personal unfavourables. That tells the story.

  2. Ian says:

    Hard to see how Philpott could hang on in Markham-Stouffville. Seems unlikely that the Conservatives won’t once again deliver 23-25k votes, Philpott would have to deliver the vast majority of Liberal 2015 votes – unless she somehow can make inroads into what looks like a stable Conservative base.

    Vancouver Granville rather harder to read, both as a new riding, more of a 3 party race possible, and a much larger margin of victory in 2015.

    • Ian,

      Now you know: a) why no offer came from Scheer and b) why no public pledge was made not to run a CPC candidate in both those ridings.

    • Fred from BC says:

      “Vancouver Granville rather harder to read, both as a new riding, more of a 3 party race possible, and a much larger margin of victory in 2015.”

      She’s well positioned here so far. Nine of her fifteen riding association members quit the Liberal Party to join her as an independent…

  3. Luke says:

    I think what they’ve done is made voting in this next election a very boring, uninspiring affair, generally, unless you live in their ridings. Just the usual slate of blue-red-orange-green candidates, all from parties that are either unsupportable (in my view) at the present time, or have very low likelihood of making any impact.

    As independents, their capacity to make a difference outside of their ridings is small. I hope they choose another vehicle later. Maybe they are awaiting Trudeau’s implosion to complete itself before running for LPC.

  4. Jack B says:

    While I appreciate JWR standing up to the Laurentien elite, be very careful here. Her views on reconciliation do not square with the idea of Canada as a nation. Read her manifesto. It calls on ceding all national decisions to oversight or even veto to indigenous peoples and setting up permanent reparations. While I am all for them participating in the success of this country, that is the wrong way to do it. This is likely the real reason Trudeau turfed her. He opened the door to something and had to put it back in the box before it got out of control.

    • Gord says:

      I would argue his dad opened the door when he entrenched race-based rights for one group in the Constitution (s. 35). Either Pierre was naive in thinking that lawyers and judges wouldn’t take that one and run with it, or he didn’t care.

      • Doug Brown says:

        Agreed. Trudeau Sr left time bombs that will continue to hold Canada back for generations: the flawed repatriation of the Constitution (impossible to amend, guaranteed seats to certain provinces meaning that the HoC will never provide Rep by Pop), flawed Charter of Rights (too much focus on positive rights and not enough on negative rights guarantees government scope creep over time, not enough mechanisms to push back on court decisions, recognition of group rights which counters the notion that all individuals are equal) and the Canada Health Act (no extra billing, no privation, no room for provinces to innovate, no clearing provincial or federal accountability)

  5. Steve T says:

    This is an historic moment, and I hope a new beginning for independent candidates.

    As I’ve posted many times before, the Canadian party system is horribly flawed. Everyone other than the leader, and perhaps a few key cabinet ministers, are irrelevant. You might as well elect a trained monkey. They all toe the line, and just parrot what the leader says. Your local candidate is, usually, irrelevant – no matter how good a person they are in “real life”.

    We need a system that stops rewarding and supporting the status quo. We need to end Elections Canada policies that make it very difficult to run as an independent. We need MPs to be free to vote against their party, without bringing down the government.

    Let’s hope JWR and JP are the start of something new and better. They are excellent flag-bearers for change.

  6. Gord Tulk says:

    In a parliamentary system like Canada’s, independence = irrelevance.

  7. I’m surprised they didn’t form a party because

    A. It’s not that hard.
    B. It allows you raise and keep money between elections.

  8. the real Sean says:

    I think the play is this: once PM Zoolander is inevitably removed / resigns as leader, say Novemberish, one or both of these women will be running for the Liberal Leadership. If they ran now for a different party, this would be impossible. I suspect there will be a groundswell of support for this among the not-crazy Liberals left in the party.

    • Fred from BC says:

      I love the theory, but what would they do with their colleagues who voted to kick them out of the Liberal caucus?

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:

        Fred,

        You know I won’t be inviting Harper to my next birthday party but could you have pictured him being run around by the nose by C-A-U-C-U-S? If I was PM, I would have told them to go fuck themselves. And if that didn’t do the trick, forget about signing their nomination papers. In the history books they will record that it was all and ONLY about their pensions.

        • Fred from BC says:

          Totally agree, Ronald. But Stephen Harper, for all his faults, was at least a real leader; it remains to be seen how either of these women might do at the helm of a major political party.

          A workable scenario, to me, is someone else taking the leadership and inviting JWR and JP back. That would send a strong message, and eliminate the need for personal animosities (well, not *all*of them, but still…).

    • Doug Brown says:

      You are probably right. As I pointed out earlier, they need only wait a few months to find out if the leadership opportunity will present. If it doesn’t, both could do well outside politics, unlike most of the losers seeking public office nowadays

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