, 11.06.2019 01:03 AM

Reposted: to shear Scheer, surely? Or not shear Scheer?

Them are the questions. What’s your view, O Smart Readers?

REASONS NOT TO

  • Trudeau will engineer his own defeat and force a snap election during a leadership race
  • The next guy or gal may be way worse
  • The problems aren’t just Scheer-related – they’re party-related, too
  • Harper, McGuinty et al. all won big after first losing
  • He’s not Satan, for Pete’s sake

REASONS TO

  • His fundamental problems – SoCon, can’t win in cities, etc. – will still be there
  • He couldn’t beat a Liberal leader caught wearing racist blackface mid-campaign
  • Le Québéc, ne l’aime pas
  • He’s still going to be a guy when the Conservatives need a gal
  • He isn’t Satan, but apparently Torontonians think he might be

68 Comments

  1. Douglas W says:

    A heavy hitter, from within the Conservative ranks, has to publicly say: Sheer has got to go. That will get the ball rollin’.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Douglas,

      There’s no one in that category who will even privately call for Scheer’s head. MacKay was on target critical but still at least nominally supports Scheer. (For now?)

  2. mike jeffries says:

    You are right.
    They need a woman who might be able to march in a gay pride parade.
    I’m not asking them to go sit down and eat lunch with the gays (like Jesus would have done when he was accused of eating with sinners)!
    Just walk with them, affirming their humanity, respecting their right to exercise their hard fought right to choose. And explain that to the public how important respect is instead of the bullying gays experience. March against a marginalized group for pete-sake. It’s the right thing to do.

    • Rodger says:

      I am generally a conservative voter
      I found his fudge resume and the thing about criticizing other people citizenship when he was in the same boat just a little too much to take
      They are in my opinion and disqualifier
      These were clear ethical lapses
      Black face was just a goofy stunt that contain no malice
      Andrew Scheer is all too willing to lie to people

    • Fred from BC says:

      “They need a woman who might be able to march in a gay pride parade.”

      If that’s the sole issue you care about, why are you even here?

      • Mike Jeffries says:

        That’s a constructive even childish remark.
        Relax Fred. March in a few parades and desensitize yourself. Exposure therapy is a well known therapeutic .

        • Pedant says:

          Do you want Scheer to take a few selfies with the delightful QAIA or will just showing up suffice for you?

          And why just this parade? There are thousands of parades in Canada of all different communities.

          • Mike Jeffries says:

            You think this is a joking matter! It’s not.
            Scheer first *needs* to answer the question “Is being gay a sin?”. Then he needs to support their right to be gay in a tangible way. Yes, march in a gay pride parade. Is that to much to ask?

          • Fred from BC says:

            “Do you want Scheer to take a few selfies with the delightful QAIA ”

            Sadly, they disbanded a few years back.

            Hopefully because someone finally cornered them and asked the oh-so-obvious question that many of us were dying to hear them answer :

            ” So…ummm…you guys do realize that if you were to organize and march in a Pride parade anywhere in the Middle East *except* Israel, YOU WOULD ALL BE KILLED, right? You understand that, don’t you?”

            (priceless…:)

          • Fred from BC says:

            “False.

            While pride parades in the Middle East has been met with police resistance, participants have survived. ”

            Darwin,

            What part of “a few years back” did you not understand?

          • Nicole says:

            It’s pretty irrelevant what happens in other countries when it comes to Pride parades. Someone running for PM of Canada needs to forcefully defend the rights of the LGBT community and attending a parade is symbolic of that. Scheer did not properly apologize for his dog tail remark which was bigoted in 2005 as much as it is now. Talk to other 40 year olds, even those raised catholic, and they don’t have any issue with same sex marriage. Scheer is a generation behind his own age cohorts, which is a big problem.
            Besides Patrick Brown marched in the toronto pride parade and no one went after him. Even Doug Ford realized the importance of attending one. Scheer hides behind his religion for his bigotry but if you speak with most Catholics, they moved on from having an issue with homosexuality years ago and especially for those under 50. Even Pope Francis is more enlightened.

        • Fred from BC says:

          “That’s a constructive even childish remark.”

          Please translate that to English for me, Mike.

          (…and I made no ‘remark’, it was a question.)

  3. Walter says:

    It’s amazing that no PM in Canada’s history has marched in a Pride Parade, and now the Media Party wing of the Liberal Party says it’s mandatory. I don’t recall marching in Easter or Santa Claus Parades as being mandatory.
    That said, we live in a world where this wing of the Liberal Party has a lot of power, so I agree that the next leader needs to find a civilized parade and march in that – much as Ford did.
    The past 2 CPC leaders have been from Ontario (Ottawa and Toronto), so maybe it’s time to pick some one from the West. Alternatively, they could chose a woman (Raitt or Rempel), but a big problem the CPC has is that most of their talent is not fluent in French.
    Whatever they do, they should take the hint from the Ontario PC’s and make a decision quickly so their meeting next spring could choose the next leader. I can’t imagine Trudeau triggering another election within 6 months.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Walter,

      Ambrose is the logical bilingual choice or Moore. Kenney is far too right-wing. And MacKay did not help himself.

      • The Doctor says:

        Agreed. Personally I’ve never found MacKay to be very impressive.

      • Walter says:

        Ambrose was campaigning for Trudeau in this past election. Is she still associated with the CPC?

      • Gord says:

        I always thought Ambrose was a bit of a lightweight but maybe she is worth another look. Rempel (nee Godin) could be a good choice – her background is Franco-Manitoban on her father’s side but I’m not sure how her French is. I’m not sure Raitt is a viable candidate without a seat in the House.

        James Moore would be a good choice but I wonder if a la John Turner he’s been out of the game a bit too long. Michael Chong would broaden their appeal but he could never win the leadership. Erin O’Toole would be a safe choice (compelling backstory, doesn’t alienate anyone, represents a GTA-adjacent seat).

    • Derek Pearce says:

      What are you talking about? Trudeau for sure was part of Toronto 2016 parade a year after he was elected PM. Possibly 2017 too, would have to check. But 2016 yes. And of course was part of them in various cities as leader of the Liberals before that .

      • Walter says:

        I meant to say no PM before Trudeau.

        Trudeau has march in every type of parade you can think of – anything to put the spotlight on him.

    • Fred from BC says:

      ” I don’t recall marching in Easter or Santa Claus Parades as being mandatory.”

      Or Italian Days. Or Greek days. Or Caribana. Or Diwali. Or Remembrance Day (wait, didn’t Junior skip that one?).

      And should our Prime Minster march in parades just in the major cities, or in *all* of them? Would that leave any time for actually governing the country?

      How about we restrict it to only official (federal) holidays?

  4. joe says:

    Scheer is not a leader. He might be a good manager but he is not a leader.

    If Trudeau called a snap election I think he’d get turfed. The complaint would be; Mr Harper could work with opposition parties why can’t you Mr Trudeau?

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Joe,

      Agreed. If Trudeau goes clearly opportunistic and against Canadians’ sense of fair play, he loses. Period.

      • Ron Benn says:

        Mr. Chretien called an election three years into a majority parliament, before the four year term was set. Opportunity presented itself in the form of the underqualified Stockwell Day.

    • Chris says:

      Many of Trudeau’s Liberal caucus are counting down the days until they qualify for their PENSION, which is roughly 20-22 months from now. There will be no election before then.

  5. The Doctor says:

    Zero charisma, zero political smarts, political poison in our three largest metropolitan population centres, lousy on his feet when faced with tough questions. Compare that to someone like Ambrose, O’Toole, Rempel, Raitt and it’s a no-brainer. Get rid of him yesterday.

  6. the real Sean says:

    Dropping Scheer would be a scenic jaunt through Crazytown. Here’s why:

    1. Most votes + most money raised + more seats = keep the guy.

    2. No votes are moved at Gay Pride Parades. If he showed up, people would just throw food at him and everyone knows it.

    3. Did better than Harper did his first time out. Won the popular vote in his first attempt. 2M. more votes than Harper.

    4. Waaaaaay less baggage than Harper ever had.

    5. No obvious successor.

    6. As Warren points out you can’t switch leaders during a Minority Parliament. That road leads to soul bending mayhem as Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatieff will tell you.

    7. I’m pretty sure the media has declared every Canadian PM in the past 30 years to be hopeless, dead, roadkill, finished, worthless, pasted, flat-lined, expired, extinct etc. until….. they are ahead by about 5 points in week four of the campaign.

    8. If the worst you can pin on the guy is that he *sexied up his resume* by claiming to be….. GASP *an accredited insurance broker* – the man is precisely just as boring as Canadians usually like their PMs to be.

    • Sean,

      I take your points which are excellent but is the leadership political standard still that of 2006, or have expectations moved on and accelerated? I think so.

      • the real Sean says:

        Actually, I’d say the opposite. Voters don’t want leadership anymore. They are afraid of any big projects. They actually want leaders who are most likely to not even try to achieve anything. “Exhibit A”: PM Zoolander. Scheer can avoid trying to do anything just as well as any of ’em.

    • Fred from BC says:

      Thanks, Sean. Your points were good enough to change my mind.

      A couple of years for the public to get to know him better will certainly help.

      Yeah, I’m still pissed at him him for caving to the Quebec Dairy Cartel, but we’ll see how he reacts after enough of the CPC membership have let him know what a terrible decision that was. Maybe he’ll learn…maybe not…

      • Chris says:

        Not a big fan of Big Dairy but I don’t see how that had any affect on the election. My big beef with Scheer is that anytime he is faced with a tough question he waffles for 4-5 days, trying to muddle through. Some days he sounds, at best, unprepared, and on others he sounds down right distrustful.

        • Fred from BC says:

          “Not a big fan of Big Dairy but I don’t see how that had any affect on the election. ”

          Maybe not, but no one has ever asked, though, have they? I’m not saying that was the only reason (or even the most important one), but it was definitely a factor. He did run a campaign based on “It’s time for YOU to get ahead”, but anyone who lives close to the US border and regularly crosses it to buy milk, eggs and cheese would be reminded every time how Scheer sold them out.

          It’s like when Christ Clark and the BC Liberals lost the last election here in BC. She lost because she lost Surrey…and she lost Surrey because of bridge tolling (to the tune of 1500 dollars a year just to cross one bridge that used to be free!). The NDP promised to eliminate the toll, despite Green Party opposition, and they did exactly that immediately after they won.

  7. Eastern Rebellion says:

    Let’s go back over the last fifty years. There have been 9 prime ministers during that time. Let’s see how the ones not from Quebec fared:
    Joe Clark – about 7 months in office
    John Turner – not even that
    Kim Campbell – about 4 months
    And then there was that Harper guy – almost 10 years
    Let’s see how the group from Quebec fared
    Pierre Trudeau – about 15 years
    Jean Chretien – about 10 years
    Brian Mulroney – about 9 years
    Paul Martin – a little over 2 years
    Justin Trudeau – 4 years so far, and he is our current PM.
    So, if I was advising the CPC, which I can assure you I am not, I would be pushing hard for a candidate from Quebec to lead the party. IMHO, it doesn’t matter what the party does or says, they will not win in urban Ontario. Their leader and/or his (or her) acolytes can march in every Gay pride parade going. It won’t matter, because the electorate in those ridings will have at least three other “progressive” parties to vote for before they get to the CPC. So, they need to garner support in the other province (besides Ontario) that gets to decide who governs. To me it is simple mathematics.

    • ER,

      The problem is that the right in general and the CPC in particular take great pleasure in perpetuating Quebec-bashing, whether it’s reality-based or not. Look at pipelines: very little ammunition used against Ontario or the Atlantic provinces — and not much more against the real obstructionist, namely, BC. No, No! It’s always Quebec’s fault re: no increased pipeline capacity, no pipelines headed to tidewater.

      And it’s with that mindset that the CPC continually screws itself in Central Canada. Ambrose or Moore would likely change that. Kenney or Rempel, not so much.

      • Eastern Rebellion says:

        I would respectfully disagree with the generalization Ronald. Yes, I absolutely agree that there are people on the right and in the CPC who bash Quebec (just like there are people on the left who love to bash the West). That being said, there are lots of members of the CPC who are smart enough to realize they can’t win without Quebec. Dump the loudmouths and get on with being a serious rival to the Libs. IMHO, the road to being PM in this country runs through Quebec.

      • The Doctor says:

        Quebec-bashing? What I saw in this election was ALL party leaders, including Scheer, hoovering and bending over for Quebec at every opportunity.

        Fun quiz: which major party leader harshly criticized Quebec for its ban on religious symbols and dress?

        A: None

        • Fred from BC says:

          This is why I can’t wrap my head around all the supposed support for Jagmeet Singh: he makes a big deal out of all the supposed racism he has endured, and castigates both the Conservatives and Liberals for ignoring racists to get their votes but utters not one peep over this?

  8. Gilbert says:

    I say Andrew Scheer deserves another chance. The Liberals ran a dirty campaign and won. Next time Andrew Scheer’s citizenship won’t be an issue and he’ll make it clear that he won’t legislate on social issues.

    Andrew Scheer spent too much time attacking Justin Trudeau and not enough time articulating why he wanted to be prime minister. The base loved his attacks but it didn’t attract voters in the centre. I’m sure he’s learned his lesson, and if he’s given a second chance, I really think he can win.

  9. Eastern Rebellion says:

    The CPC and the CAQ are natural ideological partners. Both parties share many of the same values; making sure the federal government stays in its lane vis-a-vis areas of provincial jurisdiction, fiscal conservatism and a belief in nationalism. The CPC has to find a way to have the two parties to cooperate. I see it as a way to victory.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      ER,

      Trouble is FL is just like JT, all about power and retaining it. Assuming AB & SK manage to turn off the spigot (a maybe at best), guess what will once again start burning in Legault’s heart? Autonomists are only attached to Canada because of the money. Take that away and then.

      • Eastern Rebellion says:

        Good points. But I suspect the separation wave has crested in Quebec. I can’t imagine a scenario where the West is absolved from the requirement to fund equalization. The CPC needs an ally in Quebec.

        • Fred from BC says:

          “Good points. But I suspect the separation wave has crested in Quebec.”

          I’ve always wondered how they intended to support themselves as a separate country. Where would the money come from to maintain all those social programs that they’ve come to rely on?

  10. NeinerNeiner1 says:

    I think Scheer attempted to not be seen like Trudeau who to some seems to pander.

    By Scheers step back approach on the gay community, I think that was a huge concern for anyone who supports gay rights including many heteros like myself.

    I think he pulled back from it so much, he almost came off like he didn’t care. Maybe he doesn’t & is indifferent? The worse case scenario would be that he did care but in a regressive way.

    He wasn’t even convincing enough for me when it came to equal rights for gay folks, I can only imagine the concern that some gay folks felt.

    This made my voting decision this time around a very tricky one.

  11. RKJ says:

    Can’t see Scheer rescuing his negative image in Ontario. If the CPC let’s him hang around, will likely lead the party to a heavy loss in next election. He doesn’t demonstrate the leadership skills needed for this role. The CPC also needs to review the leadership selection process. So, Scheer has to go.

    • Walter says:

      It does remind me of Tim Hudak. The Liberals labelled them in the first election and no matter what, they would be doomed in the 2nd campaign.

  12. Hatrock says:

    What is the striking difference between when Harper lost to Martin and Scheer losing to Trudeau?

    Was it simple expectation?

    Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    This is like 1972. Two years to next election. Such are most minorities. If CPC stick with Scheer, it’ll be like 1974 and he’ll lose again. After this Liberal win, all the mud is off Trudeau now.

    The CPC actually has a good list of potential new leaders, including a few women:

    Former MPs:
    Rona Ambrose (AB) – former interim leader
    John Baird (ON) – former uberminister, considered last time
    Peter MacKay (NS) – former PC leader, lots of rumblings about running
    Lisa Raitt (ON) – ran last time, but just lost her seat

    Current MPs:
    Michael Chong (ON) – ran last time
    Erin O’Toole (ON) – ran last time
    Michelle Rempel (AB) – has considered it.

    Despite the wexit sentiment, it’s time to have a CPC leader hail from the West to the East.

  13. The problem with parties, caucus and membership is that they generally pretty much have no balls to take on a leader. (Pretty sure Scheer has bet the farm on that.)

    When we went for Harper in 2005, they all lined up solidly behind him. My guess is that history will repeat itself.

    However, one highly crucial element is missing: everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in caucus, the party and across the membership was scared shitless of Harper, with good reason. I don’t get the impression that applies to Scheer but again, I really don’t see a strong leadership challenge either occurring in caucus or next April. For the record, I’m definitely in the he should go camp. It would be nice if I could force Trudeau out as well.

    • Fred from BC says:

      “everyone, and I mean EVERYONE in caucus, the party and across the membership was scared shitless of Harper, with good reason. ”

      I would guess that was because he understood that to lead the party successfully, he had to keep an iron grip on the SoCons and others who might embarrass the party if not closely monitored. Andrew Scheer just seems too…I don’t know…’harmless’?

  14. Craig McKie says:

    If Coyne and Teneycke both think Mr. Scheer should walk the party plank on the grounds that he is simply unsaleable outside of rustic nostalgialand wearing the scarlet bigot label, who am I to disagree. But I suspect that his successor, being after all elected by a socon-dominated party membership, might well be more overt and strident in their strange pursuit of the 1950’s social conditions Snark. Someone truly and honestly representing this cultlike social movement would be eminently beatable nationally next time, absent proportional voting. So I would ask the CPC as did Dirty Harry the movie cop “Do you feel lucky? Well doya?”

  15. Doug says:

    Is it that Scheer won’t march in a pride parade or that he can’t articulate his reasoning? Any Conservative politician is damned if they do and damned if they don’t participate in pride. All he would have to say is that Canada recognized the deserved rights of the community more than a decade ago, that a previous Conservative government didn’t revisit any of the issues and neither will a future Conservative government. So it is time to focus on the issues of today and not yesterday.

  16. Michael B says:

    Politely disagree.

    Harper faced way stronger competition, newly merged party and had to muzzle SoCons.

    Scheer will not muzzle himself and if you can’t beat blackface, what can you beat?

  17. Douglas W says:

    MacKay will have a war chest and a formidable ground game. First-ballot win.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Douglas,

      Are you sure we share the same type of memories of the CPC?

      In my book, Ambrose will clean MacKay’s clock IF she wants it. Not sure however that liftoff will come next April. In fact, I seriously doubt members will storm the Bastille then.

    • Fred from BC says:

      “First-ballot win.”

      Maybe, maybe not. As long as it doesn’t go to 10 or 12 ballots like the last one…any time you have that kind of a prolonged struggle, it’s not going to work out well in the long run.

  18. Steve says:

    He couldn’t beat Trudeau in blackface, he couldn’t provide straight up answers on his positions on abortion and same-sex marriage, he couldn’t clear the air on distractions like his pre-government employment history, his dual citizenship and (sorry) his work with Daisy Group. And, while his platform may have been TECHNICALLY correct (pocketbook issues), he couldn’t sell them effectively and couldn’t update his approach when it wasn’t working.

    Choosing a strong female conservative leader will flummox Trudeau, as he doesn’t do well with strong women, and if he’s seen to be attacking them like he did Scheer, Ford or Kenney, he will further damage his so-called “woke” credentials. Plus, it would end the whole “hidden agenda” nonsense around abortion and same-sex.

    Scheer’s gotta go. Now.

  19. FM says:

    Scheer should stay. He increased the number of conservative seats and popular vote. If any of the opposition parties jettison their leaders after just one election because they didn’t meet some kind of “expectation”, who will this benefit the most? You got it; the Liberals, facing inexperienced opposition leaders trying to find themselves, build caucus support, find political allies, etc. Liberals will be in perpetual power, easily swatting away opposition leader after another, Canada will have no effective opposition and presumptive government-in-waiting so no effective criticism of an increasingly indolent Liberal government. My question to all the commentators on this board; who is pushing for “Scheer must go” agenda? CBC, our “wonderful” national broadcaster who is known to have a very liberal-friendly bias in their coverage and columnists. Again, I ask, who is benefiting from this conservative angst; why it’s the Liberals who have been reduced to a minority government, having lost six percent of the popular vote and several seats, and control of the government committees. Why are there no questions in the media regarding Trudeau’s failure as a leader, and whether the knives should be out for him. Conservatives need to rally behind Scheer, be effective in parliament and in committee, and show Canadians they are the government-in-waiting. This parliamentary session is not going to last long, and the conservatives have to be ready to pounce

    • Douglas W says:

      Voters in seat-rich Ontario and Quebec weren’t prepared to hand the keys to the house to Scheer. He couldn’t sell them last month. Why will it be any different, the next time around?

  20. Retired says:

    It was Ford cutting health care that made things incredibly tough for Scheer. Makes me think Ford was a plant all along…$80 million is nothing in the Ontario budget and the cuts were suicide.

    That said, Scheer doesn’t have the charisma to win. And he isn’t tough enough (he should have bashed Ford).

    He needs to go.

    He’s another Tim Hudak, who was also unattractive to women and had no charisma.

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