12.17.2010 09:05 AM

In other news

…dogs are going after the cat vote, apples and oranges are the same thing, and oil and water have been miraculously made one.

Thank you. That is all.

45 Comments

  1. Lance says:

    “The same people who elected Rob Ford elected me,” Ignatieff said in a year-end interview with the Star on Thursday.”

    Is he kidding? Please tell me he is kidding.

  2. Paul R Martin says:

    LOL! The Toronto Star is still trying… I assume that Iggy is the “dog” mentioned in your headline. So this year Iggy will spend Christmas in Hungary. I believe that last year he spent Christmas in France. The Conservatives have new ammunition for the “Just Visiting” ads.

    • Lance says:

      Well, next year he’ll probably be spending it in Massachusetts.

    • Namesake says:

      …while you cons will be spending the holidays visiting your in-laws on the other side of the trailer park. Explains the depth of your views …and genetic pool.

      • Paul R Martin says:

        Weak! Very weak Name Sake! I still wish you a merry Christmas and may you have a great time whoever you are.

        • Conservative Peter says:

          I spent every summer until I was 14 living in a trailer ( actually I had 3 brothers so we slept in a tent behind the trailer ) . Best times of my life .

          Remember that post the next time you call us intolerant .

    • Jan says:

      For God’s sake P.R. he’s visiting his wife’s mother at Xmas. It’s pretty sad if fulfilling family obligations is grounds for political attack.

    • Honestly Paul that’s one of the silliest things I’ve heard in a while, but if it plays to the base and keeps them happy, ok.

      Have a Merry Christmas.

      Cam

      • Paul R Martin says:

        Thanks for the Christmas wishes. I am not a member of the Conservative Party and do not have any roll in the Party. I do think that it is fair game to point out Iggy’s tenuous relationship with Canada.

        • Jan says:

          No. you’re just being ridiculously small. Did you choose your wife based on where her mother lives?

          • Paul R Martin says:

            Seasons Greetings Jan. I married a Yankee. I did not marry her mother whom I could not stand.

            May you enjoy your seasonal libations. If you are near the Monarch Tavern, it comes highly recommended. I used to go there before I was married.

  3. Art Williams says:

    If you try to be all things to all people then everyone will like you … no wait … everyone will hate you.

    When Iggy came back from the U.S. I defended the move because I knew that it could have easily been the Conservatives or NDP in the same situation. I didn’t think that being in the U.S. a long time should necessarily disqualify someone from heading a political party. That said, after the flip flop on Afghanistan and, now this, I wonder if the leader of the Liberal Party really understands the ideas behind Canadian Liberalism. It’s more than were just a little different from that other party.

    The new Liberal Party mantra should be “Everybody Gets A Pony”.

    • Namesake says:

      Hey, if _you’re_ really a Liberal, would it kill you to do a little research on the leader? He spent most of those away years in Europe, esp. England. He was only at Harvard between 2000 and 2005.

      As for Afghanistan, sure, there’s room for a diff. of opinion, esp. for how the decision may have been imposed from on high w/o any caucus or Party input, but it’s not as though a mission to train the the armed & police forces of a war-torn country to help it attain stability is antithetical to Liberal values: it’s not a pacifist party.

      As for the “and now this”… what? Saying

      – “no” to the gravy for the corporations & contractors: the billions for F-35 jets, new correctional facilities, & tax cuts to corporations; and,

      – “yes” to the “practical stuff”: help people pay for child care; post-secondary education; caring for sick and elderly family members; retirement; & home renovations to save on energy costs.

      You find _that_ a ridiculous platform? Sounds pretty sensible to me: the Cons’ ‘baby bonus’ was just a token; tuition relief or forgiveable student loans is a good way to get the youth vote, which the Cons have cynically written off as unlikely to materialize for anything but the NDP Greens; extending compassionate care makes both demographic and economic sense, given the aging of the pop. & the cost of institutional care & of people losing their jobs if they take that time off anyway; ‘most everyone agrees that pensions need to be addressed, esp. given our increasing lifespans (but only the Cons seem to think that it should be the insurance co’s who should profit from that); and extending the popular home renovation credit but geared to saving energy costs & reducing GHG emissions makes a lot of sense, too.

      So what do you propose: no chickens for any pot — just Art for Art’s sake?

      • Gabriel Germaine says:

        Namesake, can you please provide me a link or explain in more detail Iggy’s proposition to help people pay for child care? If you could do that it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

        • Namesake says:

          I’m not privy to the details — if they even exist, yet — but the priority they’ve announced in a no. of speeches this year* is a commitment to bring about,

          “Affordable early learning and childcare spaces in every part of Canada, for every family that needs them.”

          … which I’m guessing would be achieved by grants to nonprofit agencies to make subsidized &/or sliding scale spots available to those under certain income levels (unless they’re already avail. through provincial programs, as in QC, but this is just me spitballing, here).

          * see, e.g., http://www.liberal.ca/files/2010/10/econ_goodale18102010.pdf and
          http://www.liberal.ca/newsroom/speeches/speech-to-toronto-leaders-dinner/

          Don Martin outlines a number of the Libs’ middle class family friendly policies here: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/10/18/don-martin-liberal-promises-give-conservatives-plenty-to-worry-about/

          In contrast, as Allan Gregg points out in his review of Harperland, one of the first things Harper did was to SCRAP the national daycare program that the Libs had negotiated with the provinces (along with the landmark First Nations Kelowna Accord).

          http://reviewcanada.ca/reviews/2010/12/01/negative-statesmanship/

          • Namesake says:

            more on that dismantling of the previously negotiated agreement here, thanks to Mr. “Here, a hundred bucks a month oughta do ya”:

            http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/760159–paul-martin-laments-loss-of-child-care-program-he-built

          • Gabriel Germaine says:

            Very good. Thanks for posting that.

            I’m curious to find out the threshold needed in terms of support. My wife and I have middle class incomes and with two kids in daycare we’re currently paying more than twice our mortgage rates in daycare costs. It’s back breaking. We’re actually going into debt to do it. We don’t qualify for subsidies and one of us quitting our jobs doesn’t bode well for recovery in the long term. We also value the early education our children are experiencing. It’s a bit of a catch-22. Harper’s $100 per month is a drop in the bucket and pretty much meaningless but if we get the help we really need I can see it being a massive program requiring many tax dollars to support. To be honest, if I didn’t have kids I would have a hard time paying more taxes for childcare but that’s just me.

          • Namesake says:

            Thanks for that real-world testimony.

            But re: “if I didn?t have kids I would have a hard time paying more taxes for childcare”

            – well, the rest of us should realize that w/o a continuing influx of well-adjusted young people completing their educations & staying out of trouble & entering the work force (and paying taxes), our whole economy, domestic peace & security, pensions, and health care systems will be in deep, deep trouble: it’s an investment in all of our futures.

    • james curran says:

      Iggy NEVER flip flopped on Afghanistan. he was one of 13 Liberals that voted for the last extension. He always wanted us to stay there. It’s why I couldn’t support him for leader (well, one of the reasons… the Quebec Nationhood thing being the other).

      • Art Williams says:

        For the record, I am a former member of the CPC who for the last 2 elections has parked his vote with the Green Party. I would really like a good reason to vote Liberal. I’m not seeing it though I leave a deep Red riding so it is not like it matters.

        We were asked to serve in Afghanistan by the USA. It beat the hell out of going to Iraq and the ass whipping we’d have gotten if we did nothing. We did our time. Now it’s time to go. While Canada has been a nations of warriors in past we seem to be most effective as peacekeepers. Isn’t that the modern Liberal tradition?

        Warren’s point of the post and one that I agree with is that you can’t be all things to all people. Iggy’s suggestion that he is some sort of kindred spirit with Rob Ford is wrong and bad politics. True Ford supporters have always voted CPC and will continue to do so. What the Liberal leader is failing to do is talk the Liberal plan and differentiate himself from the competition.

        One last thought. Iggy could take a lesson from Rob Ford (and Mike Harris). When some asks you about Rob Ford you say, “Well the people made their choice and I respect that choice but what the Liberal Party wants … and I want is a better Canada for all Canadian which includes blah, blah, blah …” Give credit to Ford and Harris, they were also 100% on the message. Iggy needs a bit more media training.

        • Namesake says:

          re: “Iggy needs a bit more media training”:

          as do you, apparently. He did just what you call for, in these year-end interviews: he positioned the Libs as wanting to give more of a return to middle-class taxpayers, saying (again):

          – ?no? to the gravy for the corporations & contractors: the billions for F-35 jets, new correctional facilities, & tax cuts to corporations (and also “No” to all the polarizing fear-mongering on scary immigrants & skyrocketing crime, which only some of the other media reported); and,

          – ?yes? to helping people pay for child care; post-secondary education; caring for their sick and elderly family members; providing for their retirement; & doing home renovations to save on energy costs.

          • Art Williams says:

            I don’t need media training. I am not a public figure.

            No one will remember the good things in this interview. No one will remember any of it tomorrow except the NDP who will add it to their archive of silly Iggy sayings that might go into an election commercial.

            How can I explain this to you? When it comes to communicating Iggy needs to be more Bill Clinton and less Barack Obama.

            I am done with this thread. I don’t want to be a hog.

    • Conservative Peter says:

      Ignatieff knows a lot about Canada but he always seems to demonstrate with his silliness that he doesn’t have a “feel” for the place .

  4. scanner says:

    wrestle that man to the ground and put a gag on him, please.

  5. JH says:

    Wow! The Toronto Star crowd must be tying themselves in Gordian Knots to explain this one, after their undying animus towards Ford.
    As for Ignatieff and the Liberals, I think the voters will see this as simply more evidence of their Natural Governing Party arrogance.
    The constantly shifting sands of the various Liberal positions and lack of a coherent sustainable message has been and continues to be the reason they see no movement in the polls towards them. They demonstrate no style or substance and constantly seem to be imploding.
    It’s sad to see actually as I for one think two strong political parties engaged in serious debate over major issues facing the country is a good thing.
    That’s not the case at the moment.

  6. james Smith says:

    Stranger things have happened:

    http://www.workingdogweb.com/Katz.htm

  7. Sean says:

    these two statements sum up the Ignatieff coms. train wreck at year’s end:

    “the same people who voted for Rob Ford voted for me.”

    “I think that the key to prosperity of the Canadian middle class now lies in China, in India, in Brazil, in Europe”

    this guy couldn’t lead ants to build an ant hill.

  8. Lance says:

    So lets see here……Liberals have campaigned for George Smitherman because Rob Ford would be bad news for Toronto, but Michael Ignatieff thinks that a Rob Ford victory somehow means good news for him, and that the same people who voted for Rob Ford will vote for him?

    WTF Is Ignatieff drunk? Maybe he should stay away from the eggnog.

  9. Conservative Peter says:

    I don’t even know where to start . And my friends call me a denier 🙂

    I think he needs to go back to standing on his head for 30 min a day to improve circulation and ward off dementia . (I’m not making it up , when he ran the first time he told the Toronto Star that he did this ).

    • Namesake says:

      well, I didn’t see that article — and forgive me if I don’t quite trust your recap of it — but that mockery is pretty ill -informed & intentioned, considering that:

      – Vascular Dementia, aka multi-infarct dementia, occurs when the cells in the brain are deprived of oxygen (often from strokes); and,
      – is the second leading form of dementia (after Alzheimer’s);
      – was something that his mother suffered from, whom his father spent his own declining years caregiving; and,
      – can be prevented by improving circulation via methods such as “inversion” poses in yoga.

      Or do you prefer that people ignore their risk factors until they burden the health care system?

      • Conservative Peter says:

        Yes he said it in the summer of 06 during an interview with the Toronto Star and even the docter that star asked about this comment laughed and said this wouldn’t prevent Dementia .

        The web site stopiggy,com also cracked a joke about this . This was a site operated by Liberals.

        Yes I know Dementia is serious , I was just recapping the star article as an example of how eratic and inconsistent this guy can be . I’m not making a mockery of Dementia I’m making a mockery IGGY stading on his head . Lighten up .

        Closer to the convention Justin Trudeau endorsed Gerrad Kennedy and then did an interveiw where he said ” Michael Ignatieff is a little all over the place ” . Now you remember that .

  10. Conservative Peter says:

    What’s next ? A photo op with Don Cherry ? Ignatieff said that he didn’t want the LPC to just be known as the party of Toronto , if he keeps this stuff up he might just get his wish .

  11. WesternGrit says:

    ROFL… That was precious! (And true). Harper, I believe, only visited the US prior to being elected… Lack of worldliness leads to a closed and closeted mind, and a reactionary “anti-everything” mentality. It explains a lot about the more extreme members of the Reform-a-Tories…

  12. james Smith says:

    HEY Could be worse, if we had the PINKO LEFTY Merger that folks talked about we could have had this guy as minister of Labour
    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/908811–pension-protest-packs-flaherty-s-whitby-office?bn=1

  13. J. Coates says:

    Iggy emulating Rob Ford? Does this mean Iggy is going to actually win an election? i.e. Have a majority of voters support him?

  14. MM says:

    Well…
    In 2008 Ignatieff won the Etobicoke-Lakeshore riding with 46.1% of the vote.
    In 2010 Ford won the two municipal wards that make up that riding: Ward 5 with 56.4%; Ward 6 with 57.3%.

    So it’s true that the same populations have elected both leaders. But did the same people elect both?. Could be. It could just as easily be true that the people who didn’t vote for Ignatieff are the exact same ones that voted for Ford!

    To be Ford, or not to be Ford. That is the question.

    • Brendan Kane says:

      Here are the approximate raw votes:
      2008-Lib 23,500 Con 18,000 NDP 6,000 Green 3,500
      2010-Ford 26,000 Smitherman 13,500 Pantalone 4,000

  15. J. Coates says:

    I meant in a national election.

  16. Jan says:

    One of the B.C. Liberals leadership candidates, George Abbott, has hired Ford’s team.

  17. Paul R Martin says:

    There is some interesting poaching going on within the Liberal Party. Ontario cabinet member Peter Fonseca has been dumped from cabinet because he plans to jump to the federal Liberals. The Toronto Star is reporting that Iggy is trying to recruit at least half a dozen Ontario MPP’s including 5 cabinet members. This poaching comes close to being “fratricide”. The Premier is not amused.

  18. hugger says:

    As if this wasn’t confusing enough for most, some over at blogging reformatories are quoting Rex Murphys thoughts on it in the Post as if he was the 13th Disciple.

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