04.21.2011 06:47 AM

KCCCC Day 27: Holy sh*t la m*rde!


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    nic coivert says:

    Tony Clement fills the trough.

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    Wayne says:

    You guys are in serious do do.

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      Joan says:

      There was a real good reason why we Liberals did not give Ignatieff any second ballot support in 2006.

      Anyone who read his articles and heard his speeches knew he was far right of centre on many (not all) issues and that he was easy fodder for many, many attack ads.

      The 2009 coronation just showed how stupid the Liberal power brokers are: taking grassroot Liberals for granted once again and no real renewal.

      And how much I have disliked Layton over the years, I am like many Liberals who feel much closer to what he stands for than what Ignatieff does, and thus, having him instead of Ignatieff leading the coalition is not as disagreeable as one may think.

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    Scott Tribe says:

    Ekos is an interesting poll this AM. Cons at 34.5%, Liberals at 26, NDP 25. That’s a pizza parliament if I’ve ever seen one. Gotta wait and see if the NDP trend in CROP and Ekos is true or not. Nanos hasnt detected it yet.

    Personally.. as a Liberal (and a progressive Liberal) it doesn’t bother me at all if the NDP is surging in Quebec at the BQ’s expense. (They can surge in Saskatchewan and BC too, if they want to – preferably in Tory ridings).

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    MontrealElite says:

    The CROP poll for Que. has no MOE, hard to take much from it but the other do show NDP climbing so there’s prob a grain of truth to it.

    Remains to be seen if the NDP can actually get out the vote in Qc., not a great ground team.

    Tony Clement, Millhouse all grown up.

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    Sean Cummings says:

    I am fascinated by how after all these years, there’s still a bank bench moron from the Conservative Party who somehow manages to torch the party’s entire campaign and ultimately their chances of a desired result in the dying days of an election. Brad Trost has single-handedly managed to get abortion back in the spotlight.

    Utterly amazing how Tories/Reformers/Whatever you want to call them, manage to do that.

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      MontrealElite says:

      I don’t know the guy but I may donate to his campaign now for that gift.

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        Sean Cummings says:

        I wonder if Brad Trost is related to Randy White?


        It must be in their DNA to do this. I can hear Guy Giorno going “D-OH!”

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          nic coivert says:

          I don’t want to be an asshole about this but, um, I’m hardly surprised given the fact that Harper and Reform have been built on a foundation of disparate right wing groups, some of whom where brought together by the Northern Foundation as early as 1992, which included luminaries from social Darwinist intellectuals (oxymoron I know), right wing anti-abortionist evangelicals, extreme libertarians and white supremacists espousing the virtues of a Global World Order. These elements have not been purged from the party very successfully, if at all, but they have been gagged. The purging was of Progressive Conservatives, people like Jim Prentice, Joe Clark, even Brian Mulroney.

          Some of these have put there trust in Trost.

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            JStanton says:

            Let’s not kid ourselves – the control and suppression of extremist elements has been Mr. Harper’s greatest political feat. Yes, it is true that he has failed miserably at all aspects of governing, but, in the tradition of Franco, Mussolini and Hussein, he has been masterful at suppressing dissent in his own ranks. That a small voice should be heard during an election, does not reduce his triumph one iota.


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            Sean Cummings says:

            As opposed to disparate left wing groups who support the Libs and NDP and who have a beef with Israel’s right to exist, for example.

            Whackos aren’t the exclusive domain of Conservatives in Canada. They’re attached to all political parties, it’s just that the Tories have raised putting their political foot in their mouth at the worst time in human history to an art form…

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            smelter rat says:

            Nice try Sean, but you’re full of shit.

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          Sean Cummings says:

          Because Libby Davies and Pat Martin are just so awesome…

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    Steve V says:

    I’m not going to claim I predicted this scenario, but I’ve been warning on this topic since 2008, over and over and over, from the Liberal perspective. Surprised about the gradient, but not really that it’s manifesting.

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    JStanton says:

    Mr. Layton is the hardest-working, most deserving person in retail politics. Mr. Harper lies, cheats and betrays, Mr. Ignatieff was simply anointed by the Toronto LPC cabal. Mr. Layton just gets out there and does the work, day after day, year after year.

    I worked with NDP operatives in university, so I can tell you that they are the toughest bunch imaginable to bring on-side. That Mr. Layton has done that, as well as win-over so many of the electorate is simply incredible. A leader of this caliber, with his credentials, in an “arrangement” with Mr. Ignatieff – whichever one is PM – is exactly what Canada needs.

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      JStanton says:

      Harper-groupies still don’t get it. The attack on parliamentary democracy brought down Mr. Harper’s government. The notion that you can unilaterally disenfranchise Quebec voters for any reason at all, let alone simply because they don’t agree with your narrow, simplistic views demonstrates that your leader is unfit to govern, and that you need a civics lesson (and a good spanking).

      Mr. Harper can spend as much of other people’s money as he likes on propaganda; it will not sway anyone at all. Harper-groupies have already been brainwashed by his promises to manifest their bigotry, and everyone else has already been repulsed by his lies, deceit and betrayals.


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    Leo Fleming says:

    Hey, you leave Tony alone. I’ve never had cabinet ministers consistently respond to emails out of the blue before. It kind of makes me wonder if maybe he shouldn’t be doing more important things than typing on his blackberry to me.

    Or maybe it’s just on of his flunikes pretending to be him.

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      Kevin says:

      Are you using his published email address? There’s your answer.

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    MontrealElite says:

    Metaphor for a crap campaign perhaps….


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    Dr.J says:

    Warren as a conservative supporter I thought you handed Lilly a nice beat down last night, I enjoyed your spot as well as Adam G later on. Now, regarding the NDP and “Super Jack”, I think that the public just likes this guy and do not like Iggy whatsoever;This is a reason for Jacko’s ‘RISING”!!…..I still think that Jack’s rise first started when he went at Iggy in the english debate about his attendance while Iggy just stood there like a pissed off deer in the headlights. Now, we have the upcoming 30 minute Iggy informercal…on a Sunday afternoon?on a holiday no-less? Only someone who A) has a massive ego would think they will tune in to listen to this… or… B) someone who is just desparate…these are the only two answers I can think of for the reasoning behind this idea…personally I would watch the “sham-wow” guy before Iggy!! I would just save the money as the public has already made their mind up about Iggy and it isn’t good. He maybe the smartest guy in the room most, if not all of the time but he sure is thick upstairs as he just doesn’t get it. Someone should ask the angry Iggy today if he would join a coalition if “Super Jack” was in second!!! Caption contest….”Cha-ching”!!!

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      Ron says:

      So when Iggy said rise up Jack took him literally 🙂

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    James Bow says:

    I can. A SINGLE contestant in the Bow James Bow 2011 election pool predicted a major flip of Bloc seats very early on in the campaign. I think I’ll eat what he’s eating…

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    MontrealElite says:

    Consorting with and capitulating to the demands of the separatist BQ is repugnant.


    Seemed to be fine with Harper in 2004.

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      MontrealElite says:

      Utter nonsense as usual

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      JStanton says:

      The usual revisionist nonsense. Mr. Harper has not “done so by getting support at different times from all of the oppo parties”.

      What he has done is ram through policy reflecting nothing but his own opinions, without the consensus of anyone but his groupies, the only alternative provided to opposition parties being a non-confidence motion.

      It’s the same old Harper-groupie story – the victim is the problem, not the rapist.


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    Marc L says:

    The Liberals too “right wing” under Ignatieff? That’s not the way I see it. The policy proposals they are putting forward (big spending…financed with corporate tax hikes) are hardly right-wing. If anything, it makes them look like they’re trying to sound like the NDP (references to “corporate tax giveaways” for “big oil and the banks”). The problem is, the left-wing rhetoric is not credible, and certainly not consistent with the way they have governed in the past. They are turning the right-wing vote against them (being more right-wing than left on economic issues, they have certainly turned me off, while there is a good chance I would vote Liberal if they went down the Chretien-Martin road). So, I see it more as an issue of credibility, or believeability. If people are going to vote left, might as well vote for the real thing — and that is Layton, not Iggy.
    In Quebec, much of what I’m hearing is still related to the sponsorship scandal — ,many people just do not want to see the Liberals in power again. The Liberal brand is damaged. Not rational, but that’s the way it is.

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    fritz says:

    What will Harper be asked about today?
    1) Brad Trost’s Planned Parenthood comments.
    2) Tony Clement’s construction kickback scheme.
    3) Guy Giorno letters re Bruce Carson to the Ethics Commissioner.
    4) Dimitri Soudas interference in a Montreal Port Authority appointment.

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    James Bow says:

    Warren, am I right in guessing that this is exactly the right time for Layton to surge like this? Today’s Thursday, tomorrow’s Good Friday. The campaigns go offline for the Easter holiday and there’s no polls to follow until Monday at the earliest. Now, people are going to go home, have Easter dinner with their families, and Layton will be the topic of discussion.

    That’s three days of talk without political spinmeisters having access. That’s a good amount of time to solidify opinions, don’t you think?

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    Cat says:

    Yep, Jack can relate to the electorate and the average Canadian, as can Harper. Ignatieff can’t and never will. It’s that simple and I believe you even wrote as much in one of your columns or posts.

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    James says:

    Hi Warren I’m not exactly sure if Layton’s surge in Quebec has much to do with Iggy and the Liberals being perceived as “a paler shade of blue”. I think Quebecers are finally waking from their slumber and taking a critical look at the BQ and all they now see is an empty shell with absolutely no new ideas or energy. Let’s face it: almost all of the BlocHead MPs are political lifers who are actually quite enamoured with life in Ottawa. They don’t want anything to change!!

    One thing I’ve observed with Quebecers over my lifetime is that that they can easily turn on a dime in their political choices.

    What concerns me about Layton is that he’s perfectly willing to reopen the thorny constitutional files of the past in order to appease Quebec. Jeffrey Simpson of the Globe and Mail raised this in a critical column of Layton yesterday.

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    Sean Cummings says:

    Liberals should start a series of attack ads showing the following:

    1) Pat Martin’s puppet shows
    2) Libby Davies on Israel

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      Dr.J says:

      Remember Iggy with the war criminal reference to Israel? Just ask the folks in Mt.Royal want they think about Iggy’s statements on Israel?

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      Purple Library Guy says:

      Normal people don’t care about Israel.
      Lefty political junkies like myself care about Israel in the sense that we think they’re practicing Apartheid and that’s bad.
      Far-right political junkies care about Israel and think it’s horrific to criticize the place.
      There are Canadian Jewish organizations lined up on both sides.

      But normal people don’t give a platypus. It’s a tiny place way off in the Middle East and it doesn’t even have any oil. They have a vague idea that maybe the Israelis are killing Palestinians, maybe the Palestinians are terrorists or something, but neither group is killing Canadians, so whatever.
      Nobody’s going to get any votes yacking about who has what opinions about Israel.

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    Brent Sienna says:

    How dare you insult Dr. Pepper like that. Waterguns at dawn Sir!! *glove slap to face*

    If anything, Ignatieff is more like Crystal Pepsi – released with much fanfare and noise then tossed onto the garbage pile for being a huge flop.

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      Robin says:

      Dr. Pepper is not a popular option??? Do you just make shit up all the time, Gord? Dr. Pepper was the fifth most popular soda in the US last year (behind Coke, Diet Coke, Pepsi, and Mountain Dew –in that order).

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    Erik says:

    I figured the NDP might see a small boost, with both Harper and Ignatieff somewhat unpopular in Canadians’ eyes, (I was thinking of Nick Clegg after the UK debates in their election last year) but I had no idea they’d go this far. Nick Clegg’s surge retreated after a week or so. Will Layton’s do the same?

    It’ll be interesting to see if they can sustain this. If so, the HOC will be very different.

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    TofKW says:

    I don’t know what to make of these developments, or how exactly our parliament will look if this continues to May 2nd, but as a federalist I’m thrilled to see the Bloc getting creamed like this.

    Bonjour Québec,
    Nous félicitons de votre voix dans la politique nationale.
    Vous ont été manqués.

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    bell says:

    Warren, I will not stake claim to predicting the NDP surge. However on this site, right after the election was called I speculated that this might happen. My theory was that Canadians would view Iggy as the driver for this election. Canadians would view this as Iggy being opportunistic, and attempting to take advantage of Jack’s recent health issues. People wouldn’t like that. I know this is not talked about in the media but in my irrelevant sample of folks I talk to it is an underlying theme. Canadian’s know that in hockey if the fighter on one team is dealing with an injury the fighter on the other team gives that person a pass. That is not what Iggy has done and it plays to the Cons branding him as un-Canadian. Everytime Jack shows up on television holding his crutch people remember what he has gone through and remember Iggy wanted this election. Jack in spite of his health issues could have supported the Cons but that went against everything they have done and stood for to date. That was my theory and it remains my theory.

    Although I am sure the experts will call me out on it.

    Cheers and take a listen to Joyce Manor – “Constant Headache” if you haven’t already. It pretty much sums up this campaign.

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      Namesake says:

      It was an offensive, dumb theory then, and still is. It was an insult to Layton because it didn’t take his word that he WAS healthy enough to fight an election if it were called; it ignored the fact that Layton’s & the NDP’s cooperation was required for the non-confidence vote(s) triggering the election to succeed, so they easily could have stopped the ‘fight’ in its tracks just by walking away; and it ignores the fact that the only ‘picking on’ the NDP that Ignatieff has done in the campaign is to ignore them, except to point out that they’ve never formed a federal gov’t in their 50 years or so and so aren’t really a serious contender now. If anything, the Libs are guilty of NOT laying a glove on them.

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    Paul R Martin says:

    The Nanos Poll from yesterday shows little change for the Conservatives, a drop for the Liberals and an uptick for the NDP. They show a slight decline in Quebec for the NDP. Iggy’s CBC interview probably hurt the Liberals a lot. If Nanos is correct, it is a Conservative majority. As the Quebec poll showing NDP strength was not a random poll, it might not be accurate. On the other hand, Quebec voters often support fringe parties that do not have a hope of forming a government.

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    artwilliams says:

    It must be worrying for the Liberals to see the NDP surging at this late date. With a three day weekend and a lot of families getting together, many people will be talking politics. Liberal don’t have momentum at a time when they really need it and voter choice will start to harden next week. I don’t have access to any prediction models but I would love to know what a further NDP bump would do to all the parties in different regions of the country.

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    Tceh says:

    Much angry-ness here:


    Linked to this website:


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    W.B. says:

    Well the NDP abandoned any allegiance to its Tommy Douglas socialist roots when Layton took over. They’re moved way toward the centre trying to bully in on Liberal territory. This brought some former NDP supporters over the Liberals when the distinction wasn’t as clear anymore. The Libs, as you say, then moved right to ease in on Conservative territory. Even Layton was cosying up to Harper while viciously attacking Dion’s Liberals. It was unseemly from a progressive point of view.
    Anyway they are so close now, it’s time for as merger. Pretending to be different in order to become the number one opponent to a Harper government is ridiculous. A lot of people see Layton as some kind of great Canadian leader. If he really was that, he would put the country first for a change, and shelve his own personal ambition for a while.

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    reformatory says:

    WK- I respectfully disagree and have asked for clarification right on this site a few tiems now. I’m open minded and if you’re right and can convince me and other Liberals then no problem– your merger wish might become a viable option one day… but in the meantime.. here’s how I see it

    1. The Right was not really a merger. I consider it more of a re-assembly. The Centre Right splinterd under Mulroney and Orchard and McCay basically brought those factions back together. Harper basically then brought the whole arrangement to the CENTRE. We are not sure if he did it for electoral gain or whether he will move sharp right if he ever gets a majority.

    2. We have never had a left party governing this country. We have always had the Tory’s and the Grits vying for the middle. Under a 2 party plus system- the Liberals were most often successful in that arrangement and formed gov’t more than the conservatives.

    3. If you look anywhere in the world.. at examples of 2 party systems. The Liberals usually are the losers. The only party that would benefit from a 2 party system as I would see it.. is the conservatives. Just like the Republicans have fared better in the US 2 party system over the democrats historically.

    4. If the Libs and NDP ever merge and the LIberals play daddy.. keep the name ect.. and move the whole entity to the centre where most Canadians are– the Right faction of the Liberal party would splinetr and join the New Conservatives. The left and farther left ( the NDP parts ) would not really be at home and they might also opt to spplinter and create another party all together leaving us back at square one.

    5. I think the Liberal party is at it’s best when the leader is firmly placed in the centre and is flanked with some “left heavyweights” and “right heavyweights”. You were a part of the Chretien team and saw that in action so I’m sure you would agree.

    6. I also agree that Iggy is perceived to be more right than Chretien, but that can be tqueeked. A larger net can be cast, that will and can change all of that.

    7. If harper gets another minority and it is likely… then the pendulum will and can swing back. Remember how McGuinty was perceived in the early days? That swung back and he went on to earn 2 terms.. and hopefully one more. Also- don’t forget McGuinty is considered to be on the “right” side of the Liberal party as well and he beat out his more progressive challenger Kennedy during that leadership convention way back when. Moral of the story– don’t beat up or give up on the right. Things will swing back. It’s far important to sit firmly in the centre and cast a net both left and right.

    8. The biggest problem for the Liberals is how to draw more seats from the West and it seems that almost all the Western provinces are electing more and more politicians from the right. Clark in BC is anice surprize– but she won’t last or be successful there unless she keeps the right side of her party happy. The other problem for the Liberals is how to tap into Quebec. Quebecers flirt with new politicians every once in a while- so Layton’s surge there should notbe looked at as any major trend. It’s far more imprtant to find the formula to appeal to them and make sure the Liberal ground war is in tip top shape in that province. The winner of the Trudeau/Cauchon/Coderre battle will produce a better ground battle and more success there. Right now part of the problem is that those 3 are not delivering until they are assurred the clout or status they covet.

    The above scenario is many Liberals and average Canadians look at things. Bottom line is this– this Campaign has so far been one of the best for the liberlas. It’s been a while since the liberals all cooperated and had all their ducks basically in a row. They need to just bulid on that. Ignatieff is making huge strides and impressions with most non partisan Canadians. A Liberal minority is not too far of a stretch even on May 2. Liberals.. my advice is keep pounding the pavement– and good things will happen.

    WK is my assessment accurate as far as you’re concerned? You keep talking about the merger but I don’t see it. I know you know tons more than I do.. so maybe I’m overlooking something. If you do want the merger to happen– then Liberals like me need to be more convinced? Can anybody help convince me?

    Until then- lets all keep our eye on May 2. Get the vote out and work as hard as we can. Harper’s got to go on May 2nd.

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      Warren says:

      Hey, look, I don’t need to “convince” you of anything – particularly someone who uses a false name.

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        reformatory says:

        Thanks for the reply. You’re missing the point though. I’m not here demanding you convince me or putting down your idea, I’m just saying that as a Liberal, I don’t see it that way, and I’m trying to see your point of view or logic. I’m not looking for a “because” or “too bad you don’t see it” or any answer like that… I’m just trying to gain more insight into the topic. You obviously see the matter your way and all I’m asking is.. what do you think of my scenario or logic as a Liberal? Do you agree or disagree with what I said would probabbly happen if a merger happened? Why do you believe so strongly that a merger is the answer? that’s all. If enough peoplle in the party see it your way- I’m sure it may happen one day– but for now there are tons in the party that are not convinced, and do want to understand the point of view that you are expressing a little better. If your right- which you may indeed be.. and people like me can be brought in line with that same logic.. then of course– it would be a good idea and then might happen. Any thoughts?

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      W.B. says:

      Two small points.
      The NDP has the western base, so it all fits, and now maybe a Quebec base.
      And there is a name already widely used in Europe: Liberal Democrat.

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        W.B. says:

        They’ve held power in Man., Sask., and BC. And quite recently too!

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      Patrick Hamilton says:

      Harper brought the whole thing to the centre?…..pshaw…..He may have made a Reformer dominated Conservative Party look more appealing, but he was simply using smoke and mirrors til he won his majority, and could institute his hard right neocon plans for Canada. MacKay was of the centre…..Orchard was an extreme Red Tory, really in name only. He simply saw the PC as ripe for takeover by his own personality cult(why build a party from scratch when you can simply takeover a weak one?, and he almost did)….of course we know how that ended, Mr. MacKays word not being worth the napkin he wrote on. I personally was not too upset by Mr. MacKay breaking his word to Mr. Orchard, myself having been lured by the siren song of merger, and at the time fearing Mr Harper less than David Orchard and his cult of personality. How wrong I was.

      I have no other comments to make on your post, but simply thought your first point on the splintering of the centre right should be corrected……..

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    Mike London says:

    Sun News will, of course, have lots of growing pains. Does anyone remember when CTV News Channel was CTV News 1, with the spinning set?

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    h holmes says:

    The issue is that the liberals and conservatives have been suppressing each others votes the whole election. No one has been focusing on the NDP at all.

    Jack Layton had the best debate since 1988.
    The line of missing votes works with the conservatives line of just visiting.

    Finally most bloc votes are not sovereigntist votes, they are left of centre votes parked ever since the sponsorship scandal.

    These voters now see Layton as a better alternative than the Bloc, especially after Ignatieff’s musings about the place of Qubeckers in Canada during the debate.

    Seeing we were the National party in Quebec.

    That is very much prairie politics, where deep issues go on resolved and eventually move to another party.
    Never thought I would see it, and we should be trying to stop it.

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    JH says:

    I think Warren will agree though that all this chatter is bad in the extreme. Once again, at a time when Iggy and the Liberals need to be pounding away on one central theme, whatever it might be, we have a scattered focus on irrelevancies, in the media. This does not serve the Libs well.

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    Patrick Hamilton says:

    Caption: “Same shit, different day“…….

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    allegra fortissima says:

    Michael Ignatieff said a bit more about the Oilsands:


    He is also a strong supporter of Renee Hetherington “We have to get this woman into Parliament of Canada” and announced that a future Liberal government would legislate a ban on oil tankers off the BC coast.

    What he won’t do is forcing us to pay $3.50 per liter at the gas pump, declaring Birkenschtockz as Canada’s footwear #1 and making us sing the “Internationale”.

    Bueller? Bueller might sing soon “Frere Jacques” in the shower…

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