04.01.2011 07:15 AM

KCCCC Day 7: expect the unexpected


Caption contest! Mine: “Bring me my senior campaign staff!”

And there’s this one, from MontrealElite, which is my favourite:

“You two closely resemble my campaign co-chairs!”

83 Comments

    • Namesake says:

      So former Chief of Staff pitbull Guy Guano in the war room calls them a liar, citing some alleged backchannel tweets or emails or whatever, b/w staffers; shocker.

      And the item they were proposing: taking an extra hour of a one-on-one debate immediately AFTER the already 2-hour long All-Leader’s debate? Puh-leeze. Who would wanna sit through and watch all that? That’s not a serious proposal in the public interest: it’s a dodge.

      Meanwhile, the actual leader MI reiterates a very public, open letter, saying, come on, let’s go

      http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/04/01/cv-election-ignatieff-letter-946.html

    • fritz says:

      There are a lot of things that come to mind after reading this article.
      1)The story is mostly based on an interview with Guy Giorno; who is not noted for is unbiased POV.
      2)If what Guy Giorno says is true; why would the Tories want to have a one on one debate with Ignatieff? It just doesn’t pass the smell test.
      3) Why do the Liberals and NDP not want to comment on what happened in the meetings? If Giorno is lying they should call him out.
      4) Why was the Green Party not at the debate meeting? As a party who had been included in the 2008 debates should they have not been invited to present their case for inclusion this time? Who made the decision to not invite them this time; the political parties or the consortium. Because they were not even invited to the debate planning meeting the decision to not have them included this time was made before this meeting were held. Were there meetings held before the official meetings to make that decision and who attended those meetings? The fix was in so to speak.
      5) What happened at these meetings will eventually come out. My guess Mr. Duceppe will spill the beans and tell us what really happened. Someone here is lying and we will find out sooner or later; hopefully before May 2nd.

  1. Leo Fleming says:

    Tories running at almost 50% in Ontario. That’s how you make majorities. It’s a bit premature to be talking about the stench of death. Especially when it looks like the NDP shift to the Liberals is just pushing Liberals into the Conservative camp.

    • Big Old Goofy Man says:

      Well, ya know, we needs da proof and da proof is da proof and when you have da good proof, it’s proven.

      50% in Ontario sounds like da good proof to me.

      • Namesake says:

        and ya know, Mr. Chretien was 100% right, no matter how much tools like you mock his English:

        He knows what good empirical proof — i.e., convincing evidence, coupled with good reasoning, to make a compelling case — looks like when he sees it, and he just didn’t see it in Colin Powell’s pathetic little slide show on the supposed WMD’s in Iraq, and so he wouldn’t sanction a war on that basis. And quite rightly so: there WERE no WMDs in Iraq.

        And I’ll betcha there IS no 15 point CPC-LPC gap in voting intentions among all voters in Ontario, even if the 100 folks a night that Mr. Nanos’ team manages to get to talk to them on the phone each night are telling them differently.

      • C.W. says:

        Do you speak French, Big Old Goofy Man? As a (now) bilingual Anglophone who moved to Québec just after the first referendum, and took the trouble to learn the language, I was always astonished at how gracious Québecers were when I first tried out my French. No one ever made fun of it. I have nothing but contempt for people like you who mock someone’s pronunciation. I gained enormous respect for the delivery guys, car mechanics, and ordinary people who managed to learn another language. Why don’t you try your reply in French, maudit salaud?

        • Big Old Goofy Man says:

          It was said that Chretien couldn’t speak either of the two official languages.

          • Namesake says:

            By someone with a lot more wit than you, no doubt. And, like, ugh, the Jr. Whopper Bush, JC was able to use those malapropisms and misundestimations to his electoral advantage — repeatedly.

            But tell you what, troll, you keep right on campaigning… against Chretien. (Typical Conservative: over 10 years and IQ points behind)

  2. Cat says:

    re: journalists – but you yourself dedicate pages in your book to a disdain of journalists. Tom Clark last night said that this wasn’t unusual that Obama never took questions. Apparently in a couple of campaigns Trudeau steered pretty clear of the media.

    I personally don’t care how much time politicians spend pleasing the media.

  3. MississaugaLibPeter says:

    WK, everything looks like and smells like a disaster for Harper, but I am sure the Conservative War Room is not depressed after taking a look at Nanos Ontario numbers.

    Maybe the chicken did not cross the road because he didn’t have to.

    I know the nice bump in Liberal polling numbers made me very happy yesterday. I am a lot less happy today.

    Liberal campaigns on the ground matter, and I hope every Liberal out there, does something for their local candidate the next few days and the rest of the month.

  4. MontrealElite says:

    If anyone is using Vote Compass to guide their decision making or if they don’t already know where their party stands on an issue, they probably don’t understand what contempt of parliament is.

    And that’s a worry to me.

  5. MontrealElite says:

    I prefer this as pic of the day.

    http://tinyurl.com/3b8rv93

  6. JH says:

    I hate to be a spoil sport Warren but Nanos took a different veiw in this story from the Globe.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/regional-poll-numbers-could-turn-over-a-lot-of-seats-for-harper/article1966649/
    Now there’s probably a better way to post that link but I am old and a bit of a luddite. Sorry.
    And you might not like Conrad Black but I thought he had it about right with this quote I notice lately on the McLean’s site; “My experience with journalists authorizes me to record that a very large number of them are ignorant, lazy, opinionated, intellectually dishonest, and inadequately supervised. The ‘profession’ is heavily cluttered with abrasive youngsters who substitute ‘commitment’ for insight, and to a lesser extent, with aged hacks toiling through a miasma of mounting decrepitude. Alcoholism is endemic in both groups.”
    You have to admit the man has a way with words.
    BTW did you notice the TV bit where the press was yowling at Harper and one of his gofers said to keep it up and they’d win the election for them. That’s not too far off, when you consider the disdain most of the public hold for the MSM media – particularly the Parliamentary Press Gallery and the TO Dandy Lions of Journalism.
    Present company excepted of course.

  7. catherine says:

    Harper seems to be running his campaign counting on Canadians voting due to disdain for most things. It remains to be seen whether that actually captures the minds and hearts of most Canadian voters.

  8. ottawacon says:

    For me, the oddest thing about the refusal to speak to local campaigns is the statement that the local campaigns can speak for themselves. In the past 3 elections, message discipline has been an increasing obsession, achieved precisely by never letting local campaigns say anything not carefully vetted by the center. This re-delegation is going to start looking like abdication. I suspect accompanying instructions have been to say absolutely nothing to media, but ‘kicking it up to national’ has been the default strategy for doing that. I think we are one interview away from a knuckle-dragger outburst.

    • Namesake says:

      It’s more of their usual bait & switch on Ministerial Accountability, isn’t it? (Where they kept staffers away from Committee hearings saying the buck stops up top.)

      The leader approves all the candidate selections; sometimes (often?) he even bypasses the local nomination process and appoints them directly. And yet it’s got nothing to do with them when they go awry?

  9. Harith says:

    This is what happens when you’re outside the realm of a carefully controlled and micromanaged PMO. The real world’s a bitch.

  10. Dr.J says:

    I forgot but was Mr.Trudeau all warm and fuzzy with the media during the 80 election? Everyone knows the media have to sell this election just so they can show their own worth. Now the MSM are trying to be an issue and become part of the story….if they do not like it, just do not follow the PM around, save your money. Now the MSM actions are just feeding the left’s talking points..”the secretive PM”. While the Star are already writing their daily and predictable “Why the Pm is Evil” story, with little Heather Mallick already leading the way, (on a side note isn’t she a piece of work, no surprise that the CBC axed her)… Then at the end of this election, the Star will endorse Iggy for PM, just like Mr. Dion and the green shift before that and Paul Martin before that. So what I am saying here…The media actions are just so predictable and expected…even you sometimes “Batman”

  11. kat says:

    Hmmmmmmmmm who has spent time in jail?

  12. MP says:

    The Conservatives may have built a formidable election machine, but the bankrolls are even during the term of the writ and the Liberals still have a Big Red Machine of their own. Lest we forget, it just needs a little fuel.

    I just gave the LPC $500 and I’m debating to which local candidate I should hand the rest of my annual contribution limit. I don’t think I’m alone.

    • Philip says:

      Your not! I capped out on Tuesday with a 50-50 split between the national and local level. I’ve just moved my vacation time to the second week of April so I can campaign WFO for my local 905 candidate. We have done really well so far but now is the time to really level up.

  13. Warren says:

    Dude, your team is in trouble. And you know it.

    It’s early days, still, but the Harper campaign machine has stunk the joint up in the past week. Period.

    • Lance says:

      But he makes a god point. What is more true: what you said then about what happens when the CPC approaches 50% in Ontario, or the CPC being i trouble now?

      I’m not being facetious, I just can’t see how both can be true.

      • Warren says:

        Guys, the job of people like me isn’t just to read frigging polls and shrug. IT’S TO CHANGE THE POLLS. The Libs are busily at work at moving the numbers up; the Cons, knocking them down. That’s what, you know, campaigns are for.

        • Lance says:

          Everyone is citing the latest NANOS poll. Yes, the Liberals have gone up 4 points at the expense of the NDP, but the Tories haven’t been “knocking them down”; in fact they went up almost a point. And NANOS also has some interesting numbers for the leadership index. Harper is ahead of Ignatieff and Layton COMBINED. And that is a daily, not a rolling poll. So it makes me wonder why despite how badly we hear the Tories are doing, they are just, well, not.

        • Cat says:

          it’s not going to happen for the Liberals out in my part of the province WK. I don’t think the guy running for the Liberals got advice on how to put his signs together. They’re not good – can’t read them or see the party logo which is in the bottom right corner – a dull pink maple leaf I think?

    • Lance says:

      But he makes a good point, WK. Either the Liberals are in more trouble as the Tories approach 50% in Ontario (which they are) or the Tories are in trouble.

      Please understand I am not being facetious; I just don’t see how both can be true.

    • Warren – even though the “machine” has stunk up the joint, they are ahead of the other “machines”.

  14. Warren says:

    Nope. He wasn’t afraid of the media, or anyone.

  15. MP says:

    Pffft – I read that. How convenient that the truth comes out in the afternoon after hours of brainstorming.

    Giorno has spent a lifetime orchestrating political campaigns that distort facts and rely on boneheaded ad hominems and now he’s asking us to believe the story he’s flogging in purported breach of a confidentiality agreement? I wouldn’t trust him with a wooden nickel.

    I can’t decide whether to call this story self-serving or ass-saving and I certainly don’t know why any of the opposition parties would it any oxygen.

    The PM’s widely reported public comments speak for themselves.

    • MP says:

      Not really.

      I think most Canadians are far more concerned about why their Prime Minister is apparently gutless.

      Isn’t that a little juicier than discussing a day in the life of Guy Giorno?

  16. Namesake says:

    Well, those latest leadership numbers on Harper sure scream “outlier” to me. (Which seems apt, given how he’s out there… lying.)

    A 10-point rise in his perceived ‘Competence,’ and a 5.5 rise in his having the best ‘Vision for Canada,’ in ONE day (b/w Mar 29 & 30)…

    http://www.nanosresearch.com/election2011/20110330-LeadershipE.pdf

    … soaring him up to the highest level he’s been in over two years

    http://www.nanosresearch.com/PDFs/201103-Leadership-Index-OnePager-ENG.pdf

    Well, let’s just see where that sits a few more days, shall we?

    The conspira-whines are best left to another sub-thread.

  17. Tceh says:

    Re: Con one-on-one debate fiasco

    The scaredy cats are trying to pull their a$$es out of the fire… http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1236078.html

    “Why is it that every single Canadian understands what a one-on-one debate means, except the Conservatives?”….Exactly

  18. Michael Bussiere says:

    A buddy (gunning for a Con maj.) and I debated merits last night. Poor guy is clueless on the fiscal management stuff, and gave Harper a “get out of jail” card for the deficit. Of course we have a huge deficit….look at the world economy. Little did he know the genius drove us to the brink before the recessions even hit. These are facts that are not getting out.

    I see a big blue arrow sliding downwards from surplus to brink to record deficit as being a very powerful graphic about our so-called economist PM.

  19. fritz says:

    It’s April 1st. Gord.

    • MississaugaLibPeter says:

      Does GT get paid for that post? Or do they dock his pay? Does anyone want to share how it works?

      I am sure even the Conservative War Room got a chuckle on GT’s expense.

    • Namesake says:

      snicker

      (“But, but, sputter, sputter, http://www.nationalnewswatch.com/ features so much good, solid, QMI content… he couldn’t possibly play a trick like that on faithful followers like me..”)

  20. Old Ed says:

    Of course it’s not over until the fat conservative sings.

    However…donations to the Liberal Party are up considerably, attendance is good at MI’s rallys and he is getting good reviews. The first step is to activate the Liberal voters who stayed home last time, this appears to be happening. The Red Machine has roared to life, perhaps not as big as it used to be but it is running efficiently.

    You can spin it different ways, but the way the campaign is unfolding is a far cry from the Liberal blood bath that many predicted just a few short weeks ago.

  21. MontrealElite says:

    Load of crap. Harpo issues the single debate challenge AFTER the coonsortium had already decided.

    Harper, Coward of the County.

  22. Namesake says:

    yeah, well, that’s Nanos, w. an n of 285 decided ON voters, +/- 5.9

    EKOS has it 9 points lower, at 38.7% w. an n of 849 decided ON voters, +/- 3.4

  23. W.B. says:

    Fife must be upset at being treated like scum and put behind a G20 style fence to shout his questions 40 feet away from Harper’s podium.
    After all the card you showed yesterday, says he’s Bureau Chief and Executive Producer. But more importantly he’s the guy that gets up close and personal with the PM when he sits right beside Lloyd Robertson as co-questioner in the big event Christmas/New Years interviews.
    Maybe they talk to him privately and say we still like you!

  24. MontrealElite says:

    Interesting that Harpo says they proposed the 1 on 1 debate.

    Thats means that Harpo was ready to deny debate voice to both the NDP and the Bloc.

    Nice idea of democracy you have there Steve-O

  25. MontrealElite says:

    Fully costed Liberal platform to be released on Sunday.

    I guess we can expect Harper’s on May 3?

    • Namesake says:

      not even… that’s why the gov’t fell in the first place, remember?

      They won’t release full costing — or Afghan prisoner — information, even when ordered to do so by the Speaker, to abide by Parliamentary rules.

      Because Mr. “I Think I Make the Rules Around Here” doesn’t want to be encumbered by anything as inconvenient as the truth.

  26. James says:

    Here we are, another day in the Liberal wilderness. The Libs are actually DOWN a point from the day before. Conservatives? A further uptick. From what I’m reading, everyone is still delusional about this being some kind of real contest.

    The Conservatives have a solid base of bedrock support at 35%. I think as the Libs veer to the left, right-of-centre Libs will go to the Conservatives. How the Libs expect to surpass a ten-point gap from now until May 2 is a mystery.

    I don’t see how the Libs will win; even fantasies of forming a coalition with the stilletto-heeled, ruby-lipped, silk-stockinged temptress, the Bloc Quebecois, are dead and buried because the BQ’s voluptuous, pink-toenailed first-cousin, the Parti Quebecois, will win the provincial election in Quebec within two years. A federal coalition government simply can’t be propped up by separatists in Ottawa with separatists also running the show in Quebec. It may have worked in 2008 when Charest was still fresh in his mandate, but in 2011, an Iggy coalition government with the Bloc is playing with fire.

    • Namesake says:

      Speaking of delusional, you want to make something of a one point drop, which is not only well within the margin of error and so should not be regarded as a genuine change, but which can also be explained by the near 1-point RISE in the Green’s fortunes and drop in the the number of undecided voters occasioned by all the press the Greens were getting over the past coupe of days over being left out of the debate(s)?

      • James says:

        Things aren’t looking good for the Libs no matter how you cut it.

        Poll numbers in Ontario are especially bad.

        On the provincial front, McGuinty’s toast in October.

        On the Quebec front, Charest’s toast within two years.

        Ultimately the Liberals will have to merge with the NDP, in some far off time.

        As for everyone whining about Harper’s restricted access to the media, read Kelly McParland’s online item in the National Post: “Harper press pack gets cranky, demands better handouts”. Brilliant.

        • Namesake says:

          Again, I’ve already answered you, twice, that the Nanos Ontario numbers are pretty dubious, since the EKOS with nearly triple the sample size has them 9 points lower, with only a 5 point gap.

          As for the media, again, the point isn’t what we think of them, the individual journalists, but:

          – what Harper thinks of US, by refusing to move off his BS talking points by having a more honest dialogue with us, THROUGH them; and,

          – what it makes us think of HIM — as a stinkin’ Harpercrite — given that he himself acknowledges the importance of having a free press in an open, democratic society.

          See these ironic remarks from a speech he gave to an ethnic press council in 2009, in an article highlighted today by Aaron Wherry:

          “Members of the ethnic press and their readers understand what it’s like in countries where ‘truth is only what the state says it is’ and journalists are co-opted as government mouthpieces or threatened with their lives, Harper said. Things couldn’t be more different here in Canada, he added.

          ‘Our government does not tell journalists what to say, or attempt to intimidate those with whom it disagrees,’ he said. ‘Instead we believe strongly that Canadians’ freedom is enhanced when journalists are free to pursue the truth, to shine light into dark corners, and to assist the process of holding governments accountable.’

          But shortly after making the speech and handing out awards, Harper was whisked through the black curtains behind the stage without taking questions from reporters.”

          http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20091122/PM_media_091122/

          • James says:

            Namesake, all PMs have shown disdain and cynicism for the media, including your heros PET and Chretien. As McParland says in his National Post item, reporters are really on the hunt for a gaffe, not real news. It’s the campaign that matters in the end.

          • Namesake says:

            uh-huh. Well, part of what makes campaigns matter is when the candidates commit gaffes, which can cost them dearly (like ex-PM Kim Campbell’s ‘a campaign is no time to be discussing policy’ remark; or ex-PM Gordon Brown’s ‘get me away from that boring old woman’ remark), which is why ex-PM SH is running away from the mics as soon as he can to try to avoid his moment in the stun.

            And McParland’s full of it when he claims, “We’ve all had plenty of time to observe Harper, Ignatieff and Layton up close.” — MI is still an unknown quantity to the majority of the populace (which is why the Party’s numbers have been increasing now that he IS getting good coverage), and the real PMS isn’t really that well known to people, either, given the way he’s been stage-managing everything & vetting & confining the media q’s the past 5 years. McParland’s being as much of a hypocrite here as he is.

          • James says:

            Namesake, the Libs will need you to find their way out of the wilderness. Conservatives now at 41.3% (two point gain), Libs at 30.3% (another one point drop).

          • Namesake says:

            Yeah, yeah…and Harper’s leadership index dropped 3 points in the same day, if you really want to watch the kettle boil each day.

            http://www.nanosresearch.com/election2011/20110401-LeadershipE.pdf

            Sure, he’s doing better than the others — the devil you know, and all that, and not really known that well (Harperland should be required reading) — but more Canadians don’t trust ANY of the leaders than trust Harper, now (29.8 v. 27.8%).

  27. Chris says:

    I wonder how long it will take Sterling to get on the phone with Dalton and ask about the nomination for the riding?

  28. H Holmes says:

    The more that we can make this debate about Steven Harper and Michel Ignatieff, the better we will be.

    By allowing the political dead weight of the NDP and Bloc in on the debates or even discussing their strategy the worse off we will be.

    Run on the left ignore the other parties and only talk about Red and Blue door is good election strategy.

    Dion and Martin both lost tons of votes, by including the non-factor parties in the debate.
    It makes them seem relevant.

    Although I understand why Dion wanted more people at the english debate, obviously Ignatieff’s team shouldn’t have.

    Too bad we didn’t get on this during the set-up for the debates.
    Hopefully this can be fixed.

    • Namesake says:

      well, except that the 4-way debate IS on, and was decided by the broadcasters anyway, not the parties, based on the fact that they had to carry one to maintain their public broadcasting license, but they wanted to make one they thought would make the best ratings to make a virtue of necessity. And it wouldn’t matter a damn what the blogosphere had to say about it.

      • H Holmes says:

        I know that the 4 person debate is on.
        Things can change though.

        E May wasn’t in the debates the last time either, enough public outcry to the channels could change this.

        It is surprising what an organized campaign for this would do.

        Not sure if the liberals really want to push this though. I mean we can get a Bev Oda resign petition, but we can’t get a 2 person debate petition started, Really :).

  29. dave says:

    Harper showed his character in his treatment of Geurgis. He has been Prime Minister, he might be again, or he might go to corporate board room land, – his character is what it is.

  30. JH says:

    This just in – Harper says Voter Subsidy is gone if he gets a majority. Whoa! The game is on.
    This is going to be fun.

    • Wayne says:

      Indeed. Don’t try and seperate a liberal from his entitlements.

      But by all means, please make this an even bigger election issue.

      • Namesake says:

        says the party that sued Elections Canada to get contested 60% rebates on overspending on advertisements that were subsidized to the tune of 75% on tax credits for the donations in the first place. Party on, in, and out, Wayne.

    • Namesake says:

      Just waking up after 28 months there, Van Winkle?

      Here, let me slip you another shocker: they also intend on (or at least, claim to; unless of course it lessens their donations, then they’ll just keep sabre rattling, baiting & switching & bailing on it) abolishing the long gun registry, too.

    • Cat says:

      Just proves how out of touch Ignatieff is – even out of touch with McGuinty.
      I heard a Liberal ad on the radio this morning and I couldn’t actually tell it was Iggy doing the talking until well in to the ad.

    • Namesake says:

      yeah, I saw the actual presser that Ivison is writing up, there… where he makes it look like his q. came from someone else.

      First of all, it’s not news, and it’s not new money, that they’re proposing the extend the EI program to include up to 6 months family care leave for certain conditions (up from the up to 6 weeks, currently).

      Second, the CPC dropped an extra billion just in the week leading up to what they knew would be the writ-calling week; and they’ve just added an extra two billion in discretionary spending in that budget, and they’ve been expanding program spending by at least 6% every year even apart from the recession’s stimulus spending, so don’t pretend for one second that they’re the fiscally responsible ones.

      Third, the oil co. q’s that Ivison is shilling for, here, supposedly in the name of increasing employment is to try to get the LPC to greenlight shipping oilsands goo up and down the BC coast — did we learn NOTHING from the Gulf spill?! — and to try to fast-track a $5-B northern pipeline to ship it off to China that no one but its developers seems to think is needed, since we can sell all our oil here in North America, thank you very much.

      So who’s the economic illiterate and who’s the shameless lobbyist, here?

  31. TDotRome says:

    Caption for first one: “Is this what brown people use to play baseball?”

  32. Namesake says:

    ‘kay, before someone else rubs my nose in it, the new EKOS is out (but not up, yet), and it IS bad news for the Libs, but not insurmountable, given that it’s early days, yet.

    Graves was just on P&P, and tho’ he didn’t even a slide with the full results, yet, it was nearly 37 to 26 (showing the greater reach of their methodology, which encompasses cell-phone users), with a 10 point gap in Ontario.

    And he was polling 1,000 a night, from the 28th to the 31st, I think he said.

    But he said most of the movement down for the Libs took place the first day, right after the election was called; then stabilized.

    So it appears they’re being punished for the “needless election” schtick, so people have to get the message out as to why it IS needed, to get the lying, cost-concealing scoundrels out, and also point out that the Budget itself was designed to trigger the election.

    So I expect that 11-point gap will simmer back down to the 5 to 7 it was, soon, as people resign themselves to the idea that frequent elections are just an unwelcome but inevitable fact of life in Canada now: like tax seasons, or car repairs.

    The other bit of silver lining in the polling clouds today comes courtesy of an online chat the Globe hosted with Nik Nanos, today.

    Asked whether the LPC have been getting the job done in making people aware of the abuses of democracy issues, Nanos replied:

    “At this point the contempt of parliament does not seem to have had any serious impact on the PM or Tory support. What you have to watch for are future events which might validate that opposition narrative. Remember back in 2006 – and the advertising scandal – the numbers didn’t move – even with attack ads – until the RCMP announced an investigation between Xmas and NYE …..so if there are no new twists to the narrative….it might not move the numbers.” http://urlm.in/hlge

    So, if even the mighty Adscam only turned the tide after an additional visual….

    well, not to worry — there’s a bunch more RCMP investigations afoot on access to info. meddling, e.g., and the Carson thing’s not over, yet, and the RCMP themselves are plenty put out with the ex-PM for unleashing the bully-boy Bill Elliot to run roughshod over them, these past couple years, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see a game-changing high-profile arrest or two over the next few weeks. Stay tuned!

  33. Sb says:

    Caption to pic one:
    “Look at me! I’m a Master Debater!”

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *


*