06.09.2011 10:22 AM

Lying liars

What we heard during the election was true. They lied. It’s a fact.

The questions that remain, then, are these: does this kind of deceit matter anymore? Shouldn’t it? Are the Conservatives right, when they sneer that you and your neighbours don’t care?

71 Comments

  1. Outsider says:

    Sadly, they are correct indeed. All of those right-wing gotta-break-a-few-eggs-to-make-an-omlette types are quite content to let their party run amok, as long as it’s their party; if and when Harper gets to sponsorship-type scandals, which the fellow travellers make excuses for the types of excesses they lambasted the Liberals for. It’s not what ya do; it’s who does it.

  2. Kevin Powell says:

    This kind of deceit absolutely matters. But it won’t. For some reason people shrug off this kind of dishonesty when it comes from Harper.

    • Dave says:

      For now. There will be a tipping point. THERE ALWAYS IS.

      • Dave says:

        Oh – and that tipping point is probably coming sooner, rather than later. My gut feeling is it’l be here before 2012 is out.

        • Ted says:

          Part of the tipping point involves what do we tip to. That’s been Harper’s recipe for success: don’t look at me and what I’m doing; look at them and imagine what they might do (and here’s several million dollars of taxpayer money in ads to let you know what we think they will do).

  3. Mulletaur says:

    Too bad the Toronto Star focused on kettling rather than how much money the Harper Conservatives stole for their ridings from the taxpayers.

    It’s too late now, Harper has his coveted majority.

    • Attack! says:

      that’s both unfair — the Star DID cover the porkbarrelling* — and offensive: the kettling and the 1,000 or so inappropriate arrests ARE an affront to democracy and SHOULD be covered, to the hilt

      http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/820221–tories-defend-2m-fake-lake-being-built-for-summit?bn=1
      Jun 07 2010

      http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/820390–from-fountains-to-gardens-to-buried-hydrants-it-s-a-new-world-in-the-near-north
      Jun 08 2010

      Not just G8 millions pour into Clement’s riding
      http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/824640
      Jun 17 2010

      etc etc

      • Mulletaur says:

        Kettling foolish people who went out to get a piece of the action against the police and making them stand in the pouring rain for a few hours may offend you, but it didn’t offend the 75% of Torontonians who, when asked in a poll just after it was over, said they thought the police acted entirely appropriately during the G20.

        The Toronto Star totally played Harper’s game – focusing on the police and the arrest of supposed ‘innocent’ protesters, while Harper and his gang of thieves focused on stealing taxpayers’ funds. The Toronto Star did after all endorse the NDP in the last federal election. They want a straight fight between the loony left and the far right just as much as Harper does. They serve each other’s interests.

        • Attack! says:

          whatever.

          Plenty of people who got caught up in the dragnet didn’t have any political agenda at all… they were just going about their business in the middle of a big city… on their way to or from work, or a store, or a bar. (Many of whom paid no attention to the news and didn’t even know that the G20 was going on then, or what that even was.)

          But how do people like you who think it’s somehow fair game to arrest someone simply for being on the streets protesting something if _anyone_ out there gets out of line…

          a) live with yourself;
          b) reconcile that with our going to war in places like Libya in order to DEFEND their right to protest and hold their government to account?

          • Mulletaur says:

            Anybody who had an ounce of sense stayed the hell out of the way and off the streets while the Black Bloc broke and burned shit mindlessly. However, there were lots of tools on the streets who had no particular political agenda – they just wanted to watch the douchebags have a go at the police and then have some stories to tell about it later. Except that some of them were surprised to become part of the story. Too bad, so sad, boo hoo.

            And as for protesting, puhlease – there was nothing to protest against. Hungry ? then you have something to protest against. Discriminated against ? then you have my blessing to take to the streets and shut down Toronto until people start to pay attention. Protesting against some vague concept of ‘The Man’ just doesn’t cut it, I’m afraid. Neither does some vague idea of ‘globalization’. Most of the brainless children on the streets of Toronto during the G20 wouldn’t know Karl from Groucho, much less what was on the agenda of the G20 meeting.

            If those who were out on the streets during the G20 seeking confrontation with the police and encouraging others to do so by their presence were totally honest with themselves, they would admit that they were just looking to gain some sort of left wing battle honours, nothing more and nothing less. It can’t be a surprise to anybody that the police gladly obliged.

            By the way, how long did you spend locked up, ‘Attack!’ ?

      • Paul says:

        Isn’t accepting the potential for arrest part and parcel with engaging in “civil disobedience?”

        The vast majority of people arrested that day had their charges dropped, and that’s how the system works. The police arrest, the Crown decides if charges are worth pursuing. In the chaos of a loud and violent street demonstration the police don’t really have time to sort out who is guilty or not on the spot, nor is that even their job. If you do not respect a lawful order to disperse, you need to be prepared for the consequences.

        Anyone that thinks this would have went down any differently under a Liberal or other government, think again. Remember Chretien cracking jokes about the RCMP pepper-spraying of protestors at the APEC summit?

        Finally, as for “millions going into Clement’s riding,” well… that’s just politics as usual no matter who’s in power. Remember the sponsorship scandal?

        • smelter rat says:

          Nice attempt at changing the channel Paul. “The other guys did it so we did too”. Is that the best you can do? When do we get the 50 million back?

        • Philip says:

          So that’s it is it Paul? Canadian voters can expect no more integrity from their government than a peasant in a tinpot dictatorship. Everyone does it so now its OK? I’m going to assume that I will never see the word “Adscam” typed by you or another Harper foot washer on this proto-blog again. Because if I do see “Adscam” or “sponsorship scandal”, particularly from you Paul, I shall be forced to bring up Tony Clement’s gazebo lie to Parliament. I’m not going to be very pleasant about it either.

  4. Christian Giles says:

    Seeing as Harper has just been rewarded with a majority it would seem, sadly, the Cons are right – Canadians don’t care about the basics of parliamentary democracy anymore. We’ve got the government we deserve.

    • JStanton says:

      I understand and share you disappointment, but let’s look at the facts: only 24% of the electorate voted for the party of Mr. Fifties. The vast majority of Canadians rejected them and everything they stand for – the deceit, treachery, and fantastical world view devoid of scientific reality.

      It’s our electoral system that has betrayed us here. As one constitutional expert explained, the constitution assumes goodwill on the part of the government – that’s why commonsensical checks and balances don’t exist here, the way they do in other jurisdictions.

      Absent that fundamental goodwill, the now apparent abuses of power and demonstrations of corrupting influences, are inevitable.

      .

  5. New Guy says:

    Don’t know how much of a difference it would have made, but the Liberals probably knew something like this was coming. So why not wait until AFTER the AGs report to force an election? The Tories went after Gomery 1. I just don’t understand the strategy there.

    Also, little will be made about how none of that pork went to Toronto. That, in its own perverse way, is outrageous.

    • Catherine says:

      excellent point “New Guy”. This was the topic du jours over many Question Periods as well and despite the tries by media and opposition the public wasn’t interested.
      We also need to remember that despite calls for an inquiry into the G20 the Premier and police chief nixed that. There were questions around how the province handled things also.

      WK – you ask “does this kind of deceit matter anymore? Shouldn’t it?” – deceit by politicians seems to be the expectation……just like “they all do it”. It’s not right that it’s becoming common place but until the taxpaying public mutterings of anger turns into a ground-swell of clear objection nothing will change.

    • The Doctor says:

      Excellent point, New Guy. That was my first reaction as soon as I saw the story: further proof that the Liberal Party brain trust were complete idiots in wanting to rush off to the polls this spring when they were something like 10 points back in the polls, etc. WK Himself put it all very eloquently in several posts that he made here. Dumb dumb dumb. The ripeness is all.

    • The NDP pulled the plug in the house and joined the Bloc and CPC after Paul Martin refused to ante up any more sweeteners for NDP. Liberals risked they would hold on and decried the house Jack built for defeating Martin Hail mary’s promises in dying days of government.

      Last Liberal majority without West History review.
      The Liberals won 172 seats with 40.8% pop. Out West they had 25.8% for 14/88 seats.

      Today CPC have repeated a new coalition without QC. It may be more enduring than last 13 year Liberal reign.

  6. Attack! says:

    One of the more troubling aspects is how or why AG Fraser was persuaded to water down the finger-pointing language and rec. from the initial draft —

    that Parliament WAS misinformed and that this likely should be referrer to the judicial system as a criminal matter for misappropriating funds (vanity projects in cottage company is ^NOT something that justifiably falls under an ‘easing US-border congestion’ fund) —

    and how the acting AG is also falling short of that, and saying it’s just up to the Parliamentary Committee to try to do something about it, now.

    I’m guessing it was just an old-school threat that everyone watching this gov’t knows they’d be 100% willing to follow up on, a la:

    ‘That’s a nice-looking staff you’ve got there, Ms. Fraser; bet they’ve got families to support and houses to pay for, too. Sure would be a shame to see most of them gone… we’re promising austerity budgets now, don’cha know….’

  7. pcase says:

    What an embarrassment this group are. Muddying the water after the leak during the campaign. Knowing full well they would be outed in this report.

    They stood their, during the campaigned and LIED – smugly.

    Baird and Clement, and by association Harper (you know -the leader who can never possibly be at fault) are disgraces to their jobs and their positions in power.

    They should be embarrassed to show their face in public.

    SHAME!

  8. Alison S says:

    Newguy: I don’t remember the exact timeline, but it may be that the Liberals thought the AG report would be released prior to the election. We should not forget that it was the NDP who voted with the Cons to sit on the report before the election. Why? We still have no answer to that. I wish the MSM would start asking questions.

    • Catherine says:

      I’d say that the MSM has being doing nothing BUT asking questions for months but people have even come to disrespect that MSM as much as deceit by politicians of all stripes.

  9. W.B. says:

    So Harper went to a hockey game in Boston on a government jet the night before he knew this report was coming, just saying “I don’t care what anybody thinks, we’re not responsible or accountable to anybody”.

    • Mike Singh says:

      wasn’t it another Conservative Prime Minister, lyin’ Brian Mulroney that said, “to the victor go the spoils”? Harper just continuing a conservative tradition…

  10. smelter rat says:

    Where are Tulk and all the other Con cheerleaders?……………………………..crickets.

  11. Patrick Hamilton says:

    To Mr. Harper, Tony Clement, and co: “A bountiful providence fashioned us holler, so that we could, our principles swaller”-J.S. Woodsworth

  12. WildGuesser says:

    Whether tales about the costs are misleading or not, CPC supporters and fair number of apolitical Canadians will easily believe that whatever amounts were spent, the cause was having to contain anti-CPC protestors of the type that torched those police cars in Toronto, which everyone previously saw all over the media. Hence, highlighting excessive costs is not going to play as well as critics would like. Despite what some anti-CPCers would like to think, having a kinship with Harper is a lot more palatable than having a kinship with rioters expressing their ‘freedom of speech’.

    • smelter rat says:

      Uh huh. How about the 1000 or so innocent people who were rounded up, beaten and falsely imprisioned by the police goon squad? I have more of a feeling of kinship with those people than I will ever have for the Harperbots.

      • WildGuesser says:

        Who is a goon and who isn’t is in the eye of the beholder is all I’m saying. Catering to a constituency that celebrates the freedom to wave a broken beer bottle in front of the cameras in all their tattooed glory, all the while necessitating tens of millions in related police security, is mebbe why things have not been looking up in the LPC of late? I actually thought Jack Layton showed quite a bit of political savvy recently when he criticized DePape’s little demonstration. Rather than try to play it for points amongst those who would rally behind her anti-CPC sentiment, he played it very cool and practical and I can see his NDP usurping the LPC positioining as the reasoned left-of-centre moderate party outside of Quebec if he keeps it up. He just might regain some of those auto-workers and working folk who previously abandoned the NDP for the CPC if he sticks with supporting common sense rather than encouraging radicalism.

        • smelter rat says:

          Oh please. what DePape did was hardly radicalism. As for the G-20,, many of the people who were “kettled” live in the area and were simply going about their business. The protesters who were there had been assured that the location where they were ultimately rounded up was a designated protest zone. And for what it’s worth, Jack laid an egg with his comments on the Senate protest. More cowardly than principled.

          • Dave says:

            I don’t know what “kettling” is, let alone why I should be upset about it.

          • The Doctor says:

            Well, if it’s like a “Dutch Oven”, that wouldn’t be good.

          • smelter rat says:

            Dave, you and the Dr. need to get educated.Time to get out of you Mom’s basement, my friends.

          • Dave says:

            If “kettling” is something you need to be “educated” about, then it’s not a very good issue to hang your hat on.

          • Attack! says:

            Basically, it’s the riot squad herding people like sheep into a dead end — pretending all the while that they’re offering them the chance to disperse and go home — then penning them in for a while until they’re cold & wet, if poss., and to scare them silly, and then arresting them all anyway… even though they know full well that these docile folk complying with their directives have nothing to do with the feared violence or actual mischief the cops are retaliating against, so they’re just being vindictive bullies, acting out of frustration over not catching the real perp’s earlier.

            It’s a police state act of repression that was found to be illegal after they did it at the G20 in the UK.

            http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/14/kettling-g20-protesters-police-illegal

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling

            http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/rcmp-has-no-policy-for-crowd-kettling-used-during-g20-documents-reveal/article1916747/

            And, just because you’re oblivious of or even complacent about it doesn’t make it okay…

            it’s like another shameful police practice in some parts of Manitoba and Saskatchewan, of picking up Aboriginal people suspected of being intoxicated, and driving them out far out of town and dumping them off, in any kind of weather, and leaving them to try to make their way back… or freeze to death.

          • Dave says:

            I never said my innocence of knowledge what “kettling” is makes it OK, but that it makes it a shitty issue to try and go after anyone on.

            If it takes more than five words to define the issue, it’s a bad issue to engage the public with.

    • Attack! says:

      whatever. These porkbarreling costs have nothing to do with security or with what on in Toronto — which was the G20 meeting.

      They were boutique projects like gazebos in the Muskoka region, allegedly for the G8 meeting, even tho’ almost none of them were completed by then, and most were far away from the site of the actual meetings.

    • Philip says:

      “Despite what some anti-CPCers would like to think, having a kinship with Harper is a lot more palatable than having a kinship with rioters expressing their ‘freedom of speech’”

      Translation: it’s OK to steal money and lie about it as long as they are Conservatives. Reminds me a lot of living in Kenya, circa 2001.

  13. Wow – a government lied to Canadians. Who knew that was possible?

    • Philip says:

      OK. You are cynical. I get that. Why do the Conservatives get a free pass on this from you? The “everybody does it” shtick may work in the Third World but it doesn’t make it right. In Canada or anywhere else. I’ve seen you post on here before, while I would disagree with some of what you say, I get the sense that you care about politics and Canada. Canadians deserve better than being lied to and stolen from regardless of who forms the government.

  14. Windsurfer says:

    Does anyone know any of the real workings behind why Sheila Fraser was stopped from releasing this during the pre-May 2nd campaign run up?

    Would it have made any difference?

    I read all the posts in this thread and it looks like CDNS did not want to be disturbed from their hockey game, but something about the public release of the report does not add up.

    • smelter rat says:

      By law the AG can only release their reports to Parliament. It’s that simple.

      • Ted says:

        The question is why it wasn’t released to Parliament when in session, not why it wasn’t released during the election.

        We know why the Conservatives wanted to hide their dirty deeds. But why did the NDP block it’s release when it could have been properly delivered to Parliament?

        • smelter rat says:

          The government was given copies to review before it’s publication and presentation to parliament. That’s pretty standard procedure, so it would have been the Cons who did the stalling. i’m not sure the NDP had anything to do with it.

          • Ted says:

            I actually meant release to the public. The NDP blocked its release to the public.

            When Parliament was in session, there was a vote in committee to permit the release of report directly to the public, whether Parliament was in session or not. The NDP voted against that motion and so the AG’s hands were tied.

  15. allegra fortissima says:

    Not only Cons, Patrick 🙂

  16. Greg says:

    Not good. My concern is by the next election this will be forgotten.

    • TofKW says:

      Or…. the Wild Rose types get so fed up with their own becoming ‘Dirty Liberals’ right before their eyes that they start running federal candidates for election #42. Who knows, maybe they’ll remember what the old Reform Party used to be all about?

      • Dave says:

        The Reform Party was about destroying the Mulroney Conservatives so that the Conservative brand could spend thirteen years in the wilderness, getting its shit back together, to be re-united by a former Reformer, rebuilt one riding at a time, and then turned into a blue-label version of Chretien Liberalism without the fiscal responsibility.

        Who needs principles or convictions when you have power?

  17. JH says:

    Personally I don’t think you can blame the average citizen for being blase’, so to speak, about all this. Who made them that way? Previous scandals of course and a media playing up the scandal-a-day strategy of the opposition.
    Folks read the headlines now and see oooh another Ottawa outrage – and then move on to the sports page. And then they turn on the tv and see the usual indignant pundits and opposition parties giving forth in righteous (and faked) anger. What do they do? Turn on Glee or whatever.
    4 years from now this will be forgotten and then what will the voter do? For sure they are not going to turn to the NDP with it’s suspect Quebec caucus to effect change and as Scott Reid said on P & P the other day – the Liberals thus far are doing nothing to differentiate themselves from the Nippers.
    And the saga of The Dark Lord and his Tory orcs continues – (must check in and see how Frodo is doing on the road to Mordor.)

    • The Doctor says:

      Agreed. In this media saturation age, I think one of the most important skills for an opposition leader and his/her caucus to have is the gift of modulation — how to modulate your message so that you’re not cranking the hyperbole up to 11 all the time. That way, when something really bad (like this) comes along, you’re able to raise the volume and people might actually pay attention.

      If I were oppo leader, the first thing I’d do at the first caucus meeting is give every caucus member a copy of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Then at the second meeting, I’d have a reading comprehension test.

      • Dave says:

        Remind me about the “modulation” that the Harper Conservatives, and the Reformers before them, engaged in.

      • Judy Torrance says:

        In this media saturation age, it would be nice if at least some media types got off their rear ends and went up to Muskoka and did some investigative reporting. Which mayors got their pet projects funded and which ones got the cold shoulder? Any party political implications?

  18. Govt dpts scrambled to come up with their est. bdgts for 2 mtngs of wrld ldrs, vastly overestimated their costs by $436 M

    Almost as bad as Liberals forecasting balanced budgets than coming up with double digit surplus in billions.

    Any idea why media is obsessed about the $ 50 million but ignoring the much larger nut of 40% not spent but approved by Parliament?

  19. student501 says:

    What’s the problem ?

    That’s what Canadians voted for. Those who didn’t come out to vote gave their voice to the others.

    It’s no big surprise, this came out during the election and Canadians still gave them a majority.

    This is what happens when voters don’t bother finding out who’s on the ballot like Quebecers did voting in all those totally unknown NDP MP’s.

    Canadians are going to get 4 years like they never imagined possible and it will be no surprise, it’s all been said before.

  20. Anne Peterson says:

    Not one hint of integrity or honour among them. Even the religious, moral Stockwell Day justifying what they did. Just a bunch of corrupt fools and we are stuck with them. Harper’e legacy will be one of sleaze. He will be known down through history as the King of Sleaze. The most dishonest underhanded leader Canada has ever had. The chief liar among liars.

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