07.15.2011 08:24 AM

Ontario PC leader Tim Hudak would defund abortion (updated)


“In an email to an ARPA [Association for Reformed Political Action] Contact, Hudak made it clear that he is pro-life and has signed petitions calling for abortion defunding and conscience legislation. The same email mentioned that he strongly agrees with conscience protection for health care workers. Added to this he has recently made it clear that the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal should be scrapped.”

It hasn’t captured many peoples’ attention, yet, but it has been known in Ontario political circles for a long time. For instance, Hudak became a strong supporter of rabidly anti-choice Canadian Alliance leader Stockwell Day because of his position on social issues like abortion (he called Day’s stances “great policy,” Hamilton Spectator, July 8, 2000). Back when he actively opposed John Tory’s leadership bid (Globe, July 26, 2004), and was co-chairing Jim Flaherty’s campaign, Hudak defended published attacks on Tory’s pro-choice stance. And so on.

Tim Hudak would defund abortion. It hasn’t partcularly been a secret. It’s just that some people hadn’t noticed.

So, will it become a campaign issue?

I’d say it just did.

H/t Dammit Janet


  1. Ted says:

    That is some pretty recent stuff from Hudak. Not digging in through emails of decades past but appears to be something he wrote to curry favour and support from the religious right in his leadership bid. Good find.

    I expect we’ll be finding out much more about Timmy over the next few months that he would rather keep in the closet.

    Interestingly and tellingly, the same site notes that Hudak’s puppet master, radical Randy Hillier, is also in favour of defunding abortion.

    • JenS says:

      So, how does this get communicated to the broader public? I think that’s the greatest challenge – to communicate this stuff. Look at all the evidence there was about Harper’s hard right stance. But, though it was there for the taking, it just didn’t get out there among those whose vote was actually up for grabs. It stayed among those who weren’t going to vote for him anyway. He got to play for the middle even though there was an awful lot of evidence to say that isn’t who he represents. I hope we do better in Ontario.

      (And if anyone needs any help with that, you know where to find me . . . )

      • George says:

        none of this matters because it’s not an issue that will drive votes away from or to any one else. What matters is the economy and if the USA continues to tank it’s not going to be pretty north of the border.

        This is not a game changer in Ontario.

        • Ted says:

          You think social conservative issues don’t drive votes? Do you actually live in this country?

          Were you here in the last provincial election when one single social conservative issue killed the PCs?

          Were you here in the last 3 federal elections when, in order to get elected, Harper had to muzzle all of his social conservative candidates and become liberal on social issues by promising over and over and over again that he wouldn’t do anything on equal marriage, on abortion, etc.

          If it wasn’t a game changer then we would see Hudak and Hillier telling us that they will defund abortion. But you won’t because they know they’d be as dead as Tory if they did.

    • DB Smith says:

      “That is some pretty recent stuff from Hudak.”

      May 1995 (comfirmed from the site) is now considered by those who support the Liberal as being “pretty recent” – to each their own as the Liberals in Ontario seem to be determined to repeat the same mistakes that their Federal cousins made and drive their party from power and into 3rd party status.

  2. Anon says:

    How does this help the Liberals at all?? Unless Hudak brings up the abortion topic himself, this is a rocky path for Grits to go down. No, actually, it’s a cliff for Grits to fall off of.

    Everyone knows Tories are anti-abortion. There is no campaign issue.

    • You’re right Anon, it is a cliff… in fact, by raising this issue NOW of all times, instead of say the third week of the campaign, just shows how DESPERATE the McGuinty Liberals really are. I mean seriously, bringing out the supposed BIG GUN in their arsenal (which the abortion card is for you guys) three whole months before E-Day? It’s a desperate measure to attempt to arrest the bleeding… note, NOT to try and regain ground, but just to stem the critical tide of bloodletting that is apparent from the Liberals.

      To me, it simply reminds me to keep the foot on the throat of the Liberals… you taught me that one Warren!!!

      • Then I take it the Conservatives were desperate when

        they prorogued parliament, twice

        their Conservative website mocked Dion and

        they questioned Ignatieff’s intentions

        Thanks for clearing that up.

    • Ted says:

      Not everyone knows “Tories are anti-abortion”. In fact, “they” are not. Many are and many are not. I suspect their leadership – Hudak and Hillier and Klees etc. – are more anti-abortion than their supporters, just based on provincial polling on the issue. And so it will be interesting for Tory supporters to hear that Hudak and Hillier are on the record as saying they will de-fund abortion, and even more interesting for voters.

      As we’ve seen with Harper and with Rob Ford in Toronto: what they campaign on has little to do with what they will do in office. So paying attention to what they are really like and what they say is important and will do when the cameras are not on them is fundamentally important.

      • DB Smith says:

        Liberals have run on, No wage and price controls, getting rid of free trade, getting rid of the GST, restoring funding to transfers cut by the CP, day care and the list goes on and on – is it not just a little disengenous for a Liberal to make these types of unsubstantiated allegations and then say “what they (CPC) campaign on has little to do with what they will do in office – when in truth the CPC has not introduced any bills that are outside of their majority mandate they received and I would be most interested in reading a list of bills that the CPC have introduced in the house since becoming Government that they have not run on.

        • RN200 says:

          Nobody loses an election for being disengenuous. What really counts is whether it works or not. Our dear sitemaster here will tell you that!

        • Ted says:

          In what way is it “unsubstantiated”? Hillier and Hudak and Klees are all on the record as saying they want to defund abortion. Read the link. It’s a conservative news website.

          As for the CPC, they have broken more promises in the last 5 years than the last 5 Prime Ministers put together, starting from their very first day in office when they appointed a senator despite promising not to.

          Which is all besides the point here.

          You could broaden my point if you wanted: you can’t just rely upon what any politician says to the camera or in a platform; you also need to look at what they said when they campaigned for the leadership and what they say to different support groups when the camera is not on.

          Which is all that is being done here. To Hudak’s dismay.

          • DB Smith says:

            I would offer up that if there was a copy, that it would now be in the public domain, franky what is “said” has little if any value and as before a link showing the signatures would be helpfull is disspelling the ?unsubstantiated” –

          • DB Smith says:

            “As for the CPC, they have broken more promises in the last 5 years than the last 5 Prime Ministers put together, starting from their very first day in office when they appointed a senator despite promising not to.”

            A list, rather than a declaration on your part would provide a better rebuttal to my comment

            To address the one point that you did bring forward.

            Harper put off appointing senators for an extended period before appointing 18 senators during the failed coup lead by the NDP, the Bloc that was fronted by the Liberals under Dion and then continued to appoint Senators because the Liberals in the senate were obstructing the passage of bills that were approved by the parliament. (Prime Minister Stephen Harper tipped the Senate’s balance of power on Friday in a bid to expedite a series of justice bills that were being blocked by the Liberal Dominated Senate)

            Politics being Politics, the PM needed an absolute majority in the Senate before June 2nd, to get the chairmanship of committees. Without these 3, the liberals could still have had chairmanships and been able to stall legislation or change it. Chairmanships are only changed after an election or prorogation. The PM could not allow liberals to stall and defeat everything for 4 yrs. Even if 2 of the 3 new ones resign within a few months, those chairmanships can’t be changed.

            Harper is on record stating clearly that he would appoint Senators elected and to date has appoint any Senator elected and I would point out at this time that the current changes that the CPC has brought forward for Reform has been well received by Canadians.

            (07/12/11) – Seven-in-Ten Canadians Want to Directly Elect Their Senators.

            The idea of allowing Canadians to directly elect their senators remains particularly popular, with 72 per cent of respondents (+3 since November 2010) endorsing this course of action.

            Public backing for limiting appointed Canadian senators to eight-year terms increased drastically to 70 per cent (+7).

            43 per cent of respondents (+4) believe that Harper is not being hypocritical because he has appointed people who agree with his views on Senate reform.


  3. David Fox says:

    Let’s see what Ontario women think of this. I think “Taliban Hudak” would be an appropriate phrase. De-funding abortions is a serious reversal, and in line with the most regressive of conservatives in the United States, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia — not exactly great company to keep. Maybe he can use the coat hanger as a campaign logo or symbol. Along with chain gangs and billions for nuclear power, Conservative Hudak is sure going to shock and awe this poor province of ours.

    • DB Smith says:

      I had asked this question previously of another contributor, because because I felt that their view and their “comment” that they expressed was worthy of Murdoch and the News of the World,

      What are the chances of having this supporter of the Liberals provide a link or a copy of the petitions that Hudak is alleged to have signed or is this just one more example of an unsubstantiated allegations built around misinformation, disinformation from the party that is known to Canadians as the party that will say and do anything to get and hold power.

    • RN200 says:

      Don’t forget to talk about his hidden agenda, that’s always a knee-slapper when we hear it from you Libs.
      (PS – Layton has a lock on the “Taliban” monicker….you’ll have to come up with something different).

      • Ted says:

        Nothing hidden here.

        Hudak and Hillier have said they want to de-fund abortion. What’s hidden about that?

        • DB Smith says:

          I still see that there is no link to the document in question, it seems that the those making the claim are not able or willing to provide details that would support their allegations.

          A observation, it has been my expereince, that if there is a document – the Urban Elite Media ie Star and CBC make the document available

        • Dureen Coade says:

          It is up to us, the people, to hold Tim Hudak and the rest to make sure he knows his support on the question on abortion.

  4. Tiger says:

    Sadly, Hudak already backed down on the tribunals. He now wants to “reform” them.

  5. Tiger says:

    The Tories are ahead — cue the ritual scaring of the women!

    • Bil Huk says:


    • sharonapple88 says:

      Hey. Hudak was the one who signed those petitions for defunding abortion. No one held a gun to his head. And he seemed proud of it at the time since he emailed this information to the Association for Reformed Political Action.

      Seriously, if he’s changed his mind, a sudden conversion, I would like to know the reasons why.

      • DB Smith says:

        What are the chances of having a supporter of the Liberals provide a link or a copy of the petitions that Hudak is alleged to have signed or is this just one more example of misinformation, disinformation from the party that is known to Canadians as the party that will say and do anything to get and hold power.

        • sharonapple88 says:

          Someone should ask Hudak that question. He’s the only talking about signing them in an email to the Association for Reformed Political Action.

          • DB Smith says:

            Ussually it is those who have made the allegation, that are required to provide information to support their allegations not the other way around –

      • RN200 says:

        How ironic – “no one held a gun to his head” used in discussing a petition about conscience protection legislation. Dear Doctor, kill that unborn baby are I’ll blow your career off your shoulders. Think about that.

    • Ted says:

      He’s on the record. Healthcare funding is a significant issue. How is this not a very relevant issue? I can see Hudak/Hillier defunding abortion after an election of not talking about it. So how is talking about their own views scaremongering? Why are Tory supporters so afraid of their leader’s own views?

      • DB Smith says:


        The secret hidden agenda has been rejected by the voters in the last election with the CPC increasing their seat count and popular support and what did these types of allegations bring to the LPC – 43 fewer seats (34 seats) and almost a 7.0% drop in support – I would consider a new line of reasoning if possible as this one is not really going anywhere.

  6. Ted says:

    Show me where Rob Ford said cutting the grass was “gravy”, or where he said public nurses was “gravy” and should be cut? or libraries. Show me where Harper said he was going to cut thousands of public sector jobs in his platform.

    As we?ve seen with Harper and with Rob Ford in Toronto: what they campaign on or put in their policy book has little to do with what they will do in office.

    So paying attention to what they are really like and what they say is important and will do when the cameras are not on them is fundamentally important.

    • George says:

      Sorry sport your post doesn’t hold water given that McGuinty’s following the leaders and sending off a few pink slips of his own. It’s a necessary evil when we’re looking to trim the fat at all levels. I think Canadians, Ontarians and Torontonians get it.

      • Ted says:

        Nice flip around.

        Ford: There will be no service cuts.
        Critics: Your budget plans make absolutely no fiscal sense without service cuts.
        Ford: Read my lips: no service cuts.
        Sycophants (months later): Service cuts are necessary. Everyone understands that. Platforms and promises don’t matter.

        The nice thing about your comment though is it completely justifies looking past Hudak’s “policy book” and at what and who he really is and not just what he is saying to get elected.

        • RN200 says:

          Perhaps the definition of “cut” was not understood during the campaign.
          Your understanding: “cut” = “change”.
          Our understanding: “cut” = “elimination”.
          I’m fine with Mercedes Lawn Cutting being reduced to Chevy Impala Lawn Cutting, which is what the reports are recommending. To me that’s not a “cut”, it’s just common sense adjustment to service delivery. To you it’s a drastic earth-shattering “cut” in service, so here you are with your “na na na he lied! he lied!”. We syncophants just don’t see it the same way you do. Sorry about that.

      • Balancing a budget by eliminating workers is far different than saying they could close a budgetary deficit through attrition only.

        • Phil in London says:

          absolutely right.

          balancing through cuts to the work force is an honest Conservative way of doing it. attrition is the fantasy (dare I say false?) and illusionary “progressive” way.

          Then you have the desparate Liberal way of doing both first pretending that attrition will work and now doing the actual cutting.

        • Phil – when asked, I recall Ford saying that attrition was the answer.

          So where’s the honesty in professing that attrition was the answer, cuts were not on the table, then turning around and doing exactly that.

        • Cameron Prymak says:

          Oct 8, 2010

          The largest spending cuts in 2011 ? $230 million ? are in Ford?s ?reduce the cost of government plan.? But Ford and his policy director, Mark Towhey, acknowledged to reporters those items are not fully identified.

          ?There?s a lot of belt-tightening that could be done,? said Towhey. ?The city?s been trying to do a similar belt-tightening program for a couple of years with spotty success.?

          Pressed to name one big efficiency for 2011, Ford pointed to his plan to save $67 million in salaries by not replacing half of the 6 per cent of city workers who retire annually. Told that attrition was listed at a different line in his budget, Ford replied that he knows the waste is there to find.

          ?This plan, ladies and gentlemen, is achievable and realistic . . . It won?t be easy to stop the gravy train, but I will do it,? he said.

          Although his rivals insist Ford?s savings can?t happen without reducing services Torontonians value ? and he would need to somehow convince a majority of councillors to agree with his cuts ? he insisted there is enough waste to make his fiscal surgery bloodless.

          ?I will assure you that services will not be cut . . . guaranteed.?


        • Phil in London says:

          I don’t live in the center of the universe so I don’t see the need to halt my life every time Rob Ford farts and use it to draw conclusions as to how the world is going to explode.

          He was however pretty clear on the need to cut spending, a lot of people voted for him because he said he would and you folks have been whining ever since.

          The reality I am speaking of is Premier Dud who sugar coats everything including sugar. The man lies through his teeth and my point was he started with attrition and is now waffling yet again with real cuts to the civil service as opposed to those now rumored by Ford.

          If he cuts half of what is rumored Ford will not have cut enough waste. Please, we get all your kitchen garbage out here we don’t need your political crap as well.

          Sit bac and enjoy the conservative renaissance that is sweeping the nation!

        • Cameron Prymak says:

          Hello Phil – actually I don’t live in Toronto, point is that we’d like to actually elect someone based on merit, track record and platform.

          Thanks for your insights though.

  7. M-J says:

    Uh, correct me if this BC-er is wrong, but I thought non-therapeutic abortions (i.e., in a Morgenthaler clinic) were _not_ covered under OHIP?

    • sharonapple88 says:

      They’re covered by OHIP.

      “Services at abortion clinics are covered by OHIP.”


      • M-J says:

        A-ha. Thank for the info.

        • Phil in London says:

          Yes sex changes are funded, abortions are funded but in our province it’s always a good idea to have a nearby U.S. MRI clinic willing to take your credit card if you have cancer, or a hospital to perform your knee or hip surgery if you want it done before you retire. You also get your credit card out for elective things like some hearing and eye tests, chiropractic care, circumcision and many other things that are not causd because you didn’t forget to take your birth control.

          • sharonapple88 says:

            MRI clinic willing to take your credit card if you have cancer, or a hospital to perform your knee or hip surgery if you want it done before you retire.

            Hey, I know three people at work who’ve had hip replacement surgery. They all went back to work after a couple of months off.

            Apparently, Ontario does well with regards to wait times.


            As for abortion being the result of missed birth control… not all the time. Sadly, there are cases where the fetus has a sever birth defect — hydrocephalus (water filling the brain cavity), or anencephaly (when the brain doesn’t develop, and what is there is often exposed). Or there are cases of ectopic pregnancy, where the pregnancy develops outside the womb. If the fetus isn’t miscarried and it if implants in something like the fallopian tubes, it can potentially kill the mother.

          • Phil in London says:

            To Sharon, I’m sure it’s over 90 per cent of these abortions are ones where there is a problem in the womb etc correct? No, somehow, I’m more sure it’s 90 per cent of the time that it is not a medical need but a convenient way to dispose of an unwanted result of a roll in the hay. Nice try though.

            My point on the need to have a US hospital nearby is so you can actually have ANY procedure done as needed. Knowing three people who have been back to work after knee surgery is fine but I know at least as many who have waited YEARS to get to the point they are deemed worthy of surgery. Strikes me as odd that you can’t get a knee done BEFORE the pain gets excruciating.

            Live in a bubble if you must, take the minutiae to support your arguments. My point is that our health system is in bad bad shape. Yes, I have been sick and victim to it personally, not just “knowing” people who have. The necessary repairs to the system are simply not throwing more and more money at it while making sure your friends get all the contracts for things like E-health and then see them not deliver anything.

  8. DB Smith says:

    A column and comments worthy of Murdock and the News of the World.

    So just how bad is it for the Liberals in Ontario, well they have called their Ottawa cousins for information on how to run a campaign based on lies, misrepresentation, misinformation and the good old hidden agenda – the problem for the liberals is that it did not work for them in 2006, 2008 and really did not work in 2011 and the good people of Ontario rejected their talking points.

    • sharonapple88 says:

      Hidden agenda… Hudak e-mailed Association for Reformed Political Action to let them know that he supported public defunding of abortions and and “conscience protection” for health care workers. He either honestly supports these positions, or he’s happy to say one thing to one group and another thing to the general public.

    • Ted says:

      What lies or misrepresentation?

      This is a religious conservative site summarizing the positions of the PC candidates on religious right issues. They like Hudak and Hillier and Klees proposals to defund abortion.

      How is it lies or misrepresentation to highlight that this is on the record?

      It was important in the federal election and so much so that Harper adopted a very liberal position on abortion because of it. And he was then able to go on and win. But do you think the result would have been the same if he had remained silent or come out against abortion?

      Same thing here. We have Hudak and Hillier and Klees on the record. There is nothing wrong in highlighting that. If they don’t become liberals like Harper did, then it is up to voters – who are very clearly and very strongly pro-choice in this province – to make their choice.

      • DB Smith says:

        It should be a simple matter to provide a copy of the email and as before I will provide an observation, that it has been my expereince, that if there is a document ? the Urban Elite Media ie Star and CBC make the document available and the absence of that document is really most telling.


        The secret hidden agenda has been rejected by the Canadian voters in the last Federal election with the CPC increasing their seat count and popular support national and in Ontario and I would therefore ask you.

        What did these types of baseless allegations bring to the LPC ? 43 fewer seats (34 seats) and almost a 7.0% drop in support and the loss of safe Liberal seats in Toronto ? I would consider a new line of reasoning if possible as this one is not really going anywhere.

  9. sharonapple88 says:

    You know what, I wish the Canadian conservative movement would quit being influenced by what’s happening down South with the Republicans.

    No public money for Abortions.
    -Republican talking point 2007: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/05/us/politics/05repubs.html

    Conscience protection for health care.
    -Republicans 2008: http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/12/19/bush-administration-adds-conscience-rule-on-abortion/

    Prisoner “work gangs”
    – Chaingang revival under Republican Alabama governor: http://www.nytimes.com/1995/03/26/us/chain-gangs-to-return-to-roads-of-alabama.html
    (It lasted a year-and-a-half, during which time an inmate was shot dead after attacking another inmate with a bush ax.)

    • RN200 says:

      You know what, we Canadian conservatives wish the Liberals here would quit being influenced by what’s happening down South with ____________ (fill in the blank – UN, MoveOn, Soros, Al Gore, etc, etc). Cuts both ways.

      • Ted says:

        How about a policy example?

        Seems to me when it comes to progressive policies, it goes the other way: Canadian progressives/Liberals influencing US Democrats.

        – healthcare
        – equal marriage
        – balancing the budget and eliminating deficits
        – ensuring pro-choice protections
        – CPP
        – legalizing homosexuality
        – personal and corporate tax cuts

        I’m looking for anything in the US that compares to multiculturalism, bilingualism, clarity act and I’m coming up blank.

        How about you? Anything to back up your comment?

        • DB Smith says:

          How are the progressives voting in Canada, – healthcare – equal marriage – balancing the budget and eliminating deficits – ensuring pro-choice protections – CPP – legalizing homosexuality – personal and corporate tax cuts

          2004 LPC 135 seats 36.7%, CPC 99 seats 29.6%
          2006 LPC 103 seats 30.2%, CPC 124 seats 36.2%
          2008 LPC 77 seats 26.6%, CPC 143 seats 37.6%
          2011 LPC 34 seats 18.9%, CPC 165 seats 39.6%

          Reads like the LPC does not know what Canadians want.

      • sharonapple88 says:

        Actually, I’m quite serious about this. Sometimes it feels as though the culture wars are being transplanted from the US to Canada at times.

        Abortion is an issue in Canada? There’s practically public funding for the procedure across Canada because of the Canadian Health Act.

        Anyway, here’s something on delisting services from a pro-choice group:


        “In reality, provincial governments never make delisting decisions alone. As cited by anti-choicers themselves (in Tax-funded abortions: The facts, Action Life News, February 2003), the head of the Senate Standing Committee on Social Affairs said in 2001 that: “the determination of what services meet the requirement of medical necessity is made in each province by the provincial government in conjunction with the medical profession.” In other words, the government must consult with provincial chapters of the Canadian Medical Association and the College of Physicians and Surgeons. The lesson learned in Alberta was that these groups refuse to go along with the government when it tries to delist some or all abortions.”


        Looking at the situation federally, when did people care about the census? There were less than 100 complaints — this from a form that goes to 20% of the population.


        However, during this time, there was a fight in the United States over the census lead by the Republicans.

        • DB Smith says:

          It was after all, that the CBC / Ekos / Liberals / Mr. Graves that suggested the culture war be engaged against the CPC, as I recall the result of that manufactured culture war was dismissed by Canadians – if one accepts the election results as an indicator.

          • Attack! says:

            Utter crap…

            first, in conflating the various parties: it was just the one individual, Frank Graves, who made that suggestion TO the Libs, while APPEARING on CBC, as ‘free advice’ based on some of the findings of his polls (that Libs drew more support among the university educated), in order to try to promote the value OF his polls, in the same way that Bruce Harris is doing that on the CBC and in the G&M (altho’ mostly, it would seem, to promote the CPC rather than his own firm); and,

            second, in suggesting that the LPC DID wage that war and lose because of it.

            Unfortunately, the LPC braintrust was notoriously slow at accepting or acting on ANY strategic advice and ran a rather scattershot campaign. (WK’s activities here don’t count: they were just his own, like any other, um, writers with a website, in his own capacities as a private individual). It was the CPC that’s been pursuing cultural wedge issues like the gun registry and scary refugee immigrants and mean old wheat board etc etc non-stop for the past six years. Would that the LPC HAD run a cultural war, or indeed, ANY war, consistently, in its Ignatieff era campaign(s) … it’d likely have been quite a different result.

    • Look no further than the debt ceiling debate to see what could happen in Canada. A few weeks ago there was a chance of a deal, compromises by both sides. Now you have the Tea Party fighting for their ‘principles’, obstructing any chance of a resolution and playing chicken with the economic recover and the US’ credit rating.

      While PMSH will be known as the person that united the right and brought US style attack ads to Canada he’s also created the precursor for the same phenomenon that has the Republican party in the electoral doghouse despite their wins in the midterm elections. The right’s lack of willingness to compromise means everyone is trying to outdo each other in being conservative enough.

      We’ve heard about Nick Kouvalis’ lastest project and frankly it looks like Tea Party North to me. Conservative party members will be pulled further to the right to satisfy the demands of a splinter group.

      “He?s building a new organization, tentatively called the Respect for Taxpayers Action Group. He aims to make the Ford Nation phenomenon permanent and take it national.”


      • sharonapple88 says:

        Ford Nation… he talked about tackling the gravy train, but with all the rumoured layoffs, who knew the gravy train staffed by police officers and fire fighters. 😛

        • DB Smith says:

          Being informed and having the ‘facts” is a wonderful thing as it inables informed discussion.

          After 7 years of Miller and his NDP (socialist) and Liberal (Leftist) councillors this is the mess that they left – Total liabilities $10,558,086 billion and a NET DEBT as of 2009 being $3,829,795,000 billion

          The Union bosses, their members and those who rely on that pension check today and have planned their retirement should pay close attention to the unfunded liability in the amount of $2,669,013,000 billion which is for the defined Employee benefit liabilities promised in previous contracts.

          They, then should measure that unfunded $2,669,013,000 billion liability against, what is currently in the Employee Benefits Reserve Funds $43.0 million and then try and figure who are going to pay for the short fall as the plan is not actuarially sound and is not sustainable.

          My advice to the Union and its members to see what is now occurring with Nortel retirees and the current state of their defined pension plan as they are faced with a further reduction in monthly payments

          John Price and the other 12,000 or so Nortel pensioners in Canada began receiving individual letters Wednesday from pension administrator Morneau Shepell announcing “interim” cutbacks in benefits starting with the Aug. 25 pension cheques.
          Ontario estimates an average Nortel non-union employee who worked in this province faces an 18 per cent reduction in benefits.

          Total liabilities $10,558,086 billion.

          Bank indebtedness 142,235; Accounts payable and accrued liabilities 2,023,732; Deferred revenue 1,576,045; Other liabilities 384,506; Landfill closure and post-closure liabilities 123,343 Mortgages payable 840,627; Net long-term debt 2,798,585; Employee benefit liabilities 2,669,013



  10. allegra fortissima says:

    Canadian Women should look back in anger and not forget history:


    There is a reason why we have a Women’s Liberation movement and no Men’s Liberation movement!

  11. DL says:

    Let’s not forget that Dalton McGuinty is also Catholic and back in the 90s when he was positioning himself as a right-leaning Liberal he was making a lot of “pro-life” noises. He also in 1994 voted against an NDP bill giving same sex couples human rights and he gave an impassioned speech in the legislature about how giving any recognition to gay couples was an abomination. Now of course McGuinty has since clearly been talked off the ledge. I don’t know if he ever wrote a letter of apology to gays and lesbians everywhere for his viciously homophobic past.

    • Ted says:

      McGuinty has now been in office for a decade. I think it is fair to judge him on his record.

      Hudak has said lots of things and then shortly after said the opposite. So it could be he flip flops on this one like all the others. Until then, it is reasonable for Ontario voters to assess him based on what he has said and believes and said he will do.

      Just like Harper had to publicly declare he was a liberal on social issues and move his party into the mainstream, and suffered at the polls until he had done so, Hudak will have the same choice.

      • DL says:

        I agree with judging McGuinty on his record on these “moral issues” – but back in 2003 we were asked to vote for him before he had a record and just trust that he would not end up being the socially conservative rightwing catholic he boasted about being in the early 90s. So, why not take our chances with Hudak if we were willing to take our chances with McGuinty?

        Then again, as far as i know Andrea Horwath has always been 100% unswervingly pro-Choice and and pro-gay rights and she doesn’t appear to be a religious nut either (I consider anyone who actually believes in Catholic claptrap to be about as crazy as a Mormon or a Jehovah’s Witness!)

      • George says:

        talking out of both sides of the cake hole Ted.

        I too remember McGuinty when he was in Ottawa making “pro-life” noises.

        A perfect question to ask McGuinty now, for an update.

    • sharonapple88 says:

      I don?t know if he ever wrote a letter of apology to gays and lesbians everywhere for his viciously homophobic past.

      Well, in this article, he gave a speech to a same-sex organization where he did a 180 in his position. This back in 1999. (Also quoted as saying that he had “matured” in his thinking on the subject.)


      If Hudak does anything close to this, my hat to him. I’d like him to openly say this rather than assume that he’ll do the flip-flop on the issue.

  12. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&oe=UTF-8&q=cache%3ApHam6JutcwsJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.campaignlifecoalition.com%2Findex.php%3Fp%3DProvincial_Voting_Records%26id%3D5251

    Tim Hudak responding to a request for his position on abortion: ?I believe that it is the government?s role to promote the choice of life in childbearing decisions, to encourage women to carry the babies to term and, if the child is unwanted, to give them up for adoption.? [Letter to CLC, May 23, 1995] See the “Quotes” tab.

    • DB Smith says:

      From the link provided as it provides some prespective.


      Caution CLC is still evaluating this individual, does not have enough data, or their record is mixed. View their quotes & voting history to help you decide.

      CLC rating: evaluation pending

      Rating Comments: Used to be solidly pro-life, but has not responded to a CLC questionnaire since 1995, nor done anything related to life and family issues. Shortly after winnning the leadership of the PC party in 2009, he chose to run an openly lesbian candidate in the St. Paul’s riding by-election.

      This may signal that Hudak’s world view has changed from ‘socially conservative’ to ‘socially liberal’. Any expectations of Hudak becoming a life and family champion are further tempered by the fact that his wife, Deb Hutton, is said to be pro-abortion, pro-gay rights and firmly ensconced on the socially liberal side of the PC party. On the positive side, he made a campaign promise to abolish the oppressive Ontario Human Rights Commission which has been trampling the freedom of speech and freedom of religion for Ontario Christians.

      • I start by taking a man’s words about his beliefs at face value. I don’t put much stock in someone else’s rating system concerning his beliefs.

        • DB Smith says:

          “I start by taking a man’s words about his beliefs at face value.“

          wage and price controls (trudeau), getting rid of the GST, getting rid of NAFTA, restoring the transfers cut by the PC (Chertein), not raising your taxes (McGuinty) – not much face value there.

  13. Darcy Stober says:

    Typical Liberal tactic which is becoming really stale….when the house is burning and everything is turning to crap….use the good old Abortion card. Pretty sad actually…..is that the best the Libs can do? Good bye and good riddance Dalton……

    • Pete says:

      Is the election over? Did I miss it or should DM just turn over the reiins to Timmy boy now?

      Campaigns do matter; DM and team are setting up Timmy boy for a good ride. he may still win but I doubt it because he’s such a liar and his lies are being told openly now by his opponents

      • Darcy Stober says:

        I guess you’re forgetting that McGuinty wrote the book on lying, misleading, and incompetance in leadership. Totally agree that campaigns matter…I cannot wait to see Dalton stick his face out there and answer to the people…..he’s in for a very very rough ride and he deserves everything he gets. Can’t wait for him to show his face around my neighbourhood…..he won’t be happy with what he hears at the doors.

  14. It makes me extraordinarily sad this sort of behavior still exists in 2011. Not just from politicians, but anyone.

    And I live in conservative hick town Edmonton, so I get to see pro-life ads every train ride.

    When I take over the world, my nano-machines will rewire everyone’s brains to accept and not vilify abortion. Until then…

    • leeky says:

      “…my nano-machines will rewire everyone?s brains to accept and not vilify abortion.”

      Big talk from a non-aborted person.

      Easy to be pro-abortion after you’ve been born.

  15. CQ says:

    Ontario Liberals have already taken away eye examinations from OHIP coverage and reneged from adding promised Dental Care.

  16. Phil in London says:

    Premier DUD has got you guys in full out panic mode, all the while another rat leaves the ship (good riddance Mr. Caplan). Now the head waffle is cutting the silly service in order to balance the budget yet somehow he expects us to believe he can do it without cutting front line services. And the icing on the cake? Villifying Andrea Horwath as some Mike Harris reincarnation.

    You folks must forget you never beat Mike Harris. You beat a pink version in Ernie Eaves who tried to pretend he was centrist.

    Did you not notice the last federal election where your cousins lurched so far left they lost that vote to the NDP and the right picked up enough of your votes to gain a comfortable majority.

    A couple of us right wingers were today and observing this looks like the Dion fiasco where the feds chose to throw one election away and tossed poor Stephane under the bus figuring Count Ignatieff would have an easy time of it in the next election.

    Premier Dud has failed at preparing a successor and it just looks like the “brain trust” is using old failed themes to fight Hudak and are being just plain stupid with Horwath. You all saying you are running on record but have not spent a minute defending your record opting to backstab the other two parties after having 8 years to spruce the province up.

    Keep up the good work!

  17. J.B. says:

    I’m personally “pro-life” but believe it’s an individual choice within reason(3rd trimester is a no no). Anyway, the choice is there but I’d rather see our health dollars do to hip replacements than abortions. I don’t Hudak is too far off from the mainstream if this is what he’s proposing.

  18. Dr.Dawg says:

    C’mon, Warren, be nice. You h/t’d DAMMIT JANET–now give ’em a link. They always extend that courtesy to you.

  19. Dave Redekop says:

    Warren, Warren, Warren: You wouldn’t be trying to depress that Tory voter turnout, would you?

  20. RN200 says:

    Can anyone explain why the province funds abortion but doesn’t fund in vitro? Our policy is to prevent population growth, then whine about the lack of population and growth? How about we de-fund abortion and divert it to helping couples who desperately want a child.

  21. DB Smith says:

    Truth and motivation – interesting concepts from a party that Federally and Provincially seem to suffer from a lack or absense of either and given their recent history. Canadians have already made that choice as to who is being truthful and who is not, as it does appear that given the recent election results and polls do not favour the former natural Governing party and their supporters.

    2000 LPC 172 seats 40.85%, 78 seats 37.68%; 2004 LPC 135 seats 36.7%, CPC 99 seats 29.6%; 2006 LPC 103 seats 30.2%, CPC 124 seats 36.2%; 2008 LPC 77 seats 26.6%, CPC 143 seats 37.6%; 2011 LPC 34 seats 18.9%, CPC 165 seats 39.6%

  22. Michael says:

    When it comes to ignoring empirical research, the Ontario Conservatives are no different than their federal counterparts. Is this really the type of Premier we want in Ontario?

    Tim Hudak’s intends to put gps devices on everyone on the sex offender registry and publish information about them online. Here are some of the things that Mr. Hudak is NOT telling you:

    1. Mr. Hudak says the legislation is necessary to protect society from ‘those predators’. Mr. Hudak likely already knows, or SHOULD know, that former sex offenders have a lower recidivism rate that any other group of offender. Most will never reoffend. http://ontarioregistryandgps.webs.com/supplementalresources.htm

    2.The Canadians sex offender registries, utilizing funds and police resources now for over a decade, have never assisted in solving even one crime.

    3. Mr. Hudak estimated the cost to be c. $50 million. Solicitor General Jim Bradley said in order to use effective technology the price tag would actually be “quadruple” that. So, we’re now looking at approximately $200 million dollars per year.

    4. Minnesota Department of Corrections stated of gps usage “It does not prevent offenders from committing crimes.”

    5. Preventing former offenders from reintegrating into society INCREASES RECIDIVISM.http://www.uta.fi/laitokset/historia/sivut/english/nam/material/SexlawsEconomist060809.pdf



  23. Attack! says:

    Interesting, this link from Anon. to (and presumably from) Brian Lilley, to a blog post in which the latter:

    1) pretends that this gives him a reason to vote FOR Hudak (as though it were in doubt that he was going to vote Conservative no matter what Hudak’s position on this, or whether or not the Libs raised it);

    2) indicates that he’ll vote PC because of this even though he knows full well that Hudak’s likely just being hypocritical in courting the socially conservative vote w/o really intending to do anything about it; and,

    3) makes what appears to be an inflammatory, unfounded, and quite possibly false statement, that McGuinty “is a cheerleader for taxpayer funded abortion up until the 9th month” …

    …which is inconsistent with what the Table below says, which is just that OHIP funds it up to a little over the 5th month (24 weeks). (I’d like to see evidence and an explanation of under what circumstances Ontario funds it later than that, and if it’s just for a life-threatening case, what Hudak’s view and explanation for denying that would be (i.e., for why the life of the baby whose birth would kill the mother should take precedence over the mother’s).)


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