— Musings —01.05.2012 04:50 PM
…and, again, from Messrs. Kenney and Baird, and the “ORF” (updated)
UPDATE: Took a few days too many, but they’ve finally indicated some interest in the Muslim community. About time.
— Musings —01.05.2012 04:50 PM
UPDATE: Took a few days too many, but they’ve finally indicated some interest in the Muslim community. About time.
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ORF! ORF! ORF!!
What’s that, Lassie?
Little Johnny, Kenny & Stevie have ALL fallen down the well?
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Silence means consent.
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I’m saying the Goverment should act like a frigging Goverment. For all the people.
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“Hate” crime or not, it seems to me that this is nothing more than a local police matter in the community in which it occurred
Try as I might, I can’t recall a Federal cabinet minister ever weighing in on a local case of church/synagogue/cemetary/mosque/whatever vandalism in the past, so why would this one be any different?
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And what’s your view of Muslims, Paul?
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Paul,
On January 17, 2011, Minister Jason Kenney released the following statement about vandalism at synagogues and a Jewish school in Montreal:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/statements/2011/2011-01-17a.asp
On September 19, 2011 Minister Jason Kenny spoke at the signing of the Ottawa Protocol against Anti-Semitism and called the vandalism at synagogues as hate crimes.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/speeches/2011/2011-09-19.asp
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Warren,
I don’t bear any ill-will towards Muslims at all. It’s more akin to pity, which is the same view I have towards hardcore followers of any organized religion (especially the strict, brainwash-y ones like say: Southern Baptism, Jehovah’s Witnesses and yes, Islam.) I certainly don’t buy into the whole “culture war” nonsense where rabid conservatives think we are actually at war with all of Islam if that’s what your thinking.
Basically, I’m against special treatment for any group and to me hate crime laws say that some groups are more protected than others in the eyes of the law. Why should some thug who beats the shit out of and robs me get a lesser sentence than if their victim had been gay or Muslim?
And tell me please, why “hate crime” laws never seem to apply when the shoe is on the other foot:
Mercy for the drunk Muslim girl gang who attacked woman
“The four defendants shouted “kill the white slag” as they attacked Rhea Page after dragging her to the ground. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8939276/Mercy-for-the-drunk-Muslim-girl-gang-who-attacked-woman.html
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Could you imagine if this was a synagogue? Oh my they’d be going berserk.
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I think the Left is being naïve about this story. This is Trudeau’s multiculturalism, this stuff will happen.
An interesting questions : If Canada was going thought a crisis how bad would this stuff get. Is multiculturalism a failure?
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Um….Trudeau? Here’s a newsflash, it’s 2012. You’re still invoking Trudeau?
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According to Sarkozy, Cameron and Merkel, yes. Multiculturalism a failure in Canada? I hope this will never ever happen. One thing, among so many others, I love about Canada is a multiculturalism that actually works!
“Tolerance and moderation are found in this country perhaps in larger measure than anywhere else; against them we can judge our stature as a country and as a people. Our institutions of government and our judiciary have long encouraged a climate of non-interference of Canadians towards Canadians. We are all richer for it. We here take for granted what many others seek and envy: relationships that by and large accept without question differences in colour or origin or language, and a common resolution to eliminate whatever intolerance does exist.” (Pierre Elliott Trudeau)
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That’s a very ignorant statement. If anything pulled Canada out of the clutches of the remnants of Colonial/Imperialist ideologies which governed our treatment of minorities, it was the brilliance of our greatest PM. A man who valued the equality of all people above all else. “Trudeau’s multiculturalism” helped build our multicultural mosaic. The fact that we have festivals in cities across the country celebrating multi-cultural heritage is due to PET. Our adoption of Trudeauist ideals made us the most celebrated destination in the World.
Of course the right wing will continue their hatred of multiculturalism (we know Kenney’s mission is to so “f up” the Dept. of Multiculturalism and Immigration that we “don’t recognize it”) that has them constantly harping about how that wonderful plan for Canada has somehow wronged them.
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I believe Trudeau also raised the dead, walked on water and miraculously created loaves and fishes out of nothing in order to feed poor wandering travellers.
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I believe Pierre Trudeau was “A MAN FOR TOMORROW”. Whether he talked about human dignity, the just society, the role of law, the economy, the environment, foreign relations, a peaceful world or Canada’s future – he was years ahead of his time. A true statesman!
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How an act of racism and intolerance can be blamed on multiculturalism is beyond my comprehension.
Do you also blame muggings on the victim for having too much money?
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My point is multiculturalism plays a part in this type of stuff. If you put two cultures together in close proximity that don’t like each other, the result be what we have here.
I’m not saying it’s right. I wish it didn’t occur. To say they have no relationship is not correct.
“Do you also blame muggings on the victim for having too much money? I’m not blaming anyone???? What I’m saying is I wouldn’t be suprised if someone got mugged in a bad part of town.
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I think this stuff would happen a lot more in a non-multiculturalism society
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How much can these incidents be linked to the “Immigrants Guide” distributed in Gatineau before the holidays, if at all possible to tell at this point. Anybody?
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This is barely newsworthy. Some vandalism.
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What’s your views of Muslims, Kevin?
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I don’t have an “official” view on Muslims since they are represented by hundreds of millions of individuals.
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There is no room in this country for a hierarchy of racism. Racism, hatred, homophobia, Islamophobia, antisemitism, no matter how it is dressed must be unequivocally denounced. It starts with our political leaders but it ends with us.
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Go ahead and denounce it but get rid of the Human Rights Commission kangaroo courts.
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I’m waiting for Gord and Gwynn to explain why Muslims are at fault here.
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Because Islam by definition is a radical religion rather than a religion having a radical fringe. This of course means you haven’t a clue of the religion or history, or if you do have a clue then you’re being a hypocrite. This isn’t negating the threat of the radical fringe but an ignorant view of your Muslim neighbours only hurts them.
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uh huh… Let me tell you about my Muslim neighbors. They drink beer and enjoy watching the Leafs lose. In particular, none of my Muslim friends have ever openly voiced opinions to me about their religion. This is in strong contrast to several of my well meaning Christian friends. Please, share with us your thoughts about your Muslim neighbors.
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my Muslim neighbors are the same, although most don’t advertise their drinking. Hope you got my post in the spirit intended.
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yes, I go your post in the spirit intended. You are a wild eyed bigot and like to tone it down a bit so you seem normal.
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Oh please. I’m sure you can cite some evidence that Islam is a radical religion? Please do. And make sure to describe how it is ‘radical’ compared to other religions.
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I suspect when the PM of a secular First World democracy publicly demonizes “Islamicism”, it’s just another step towards bullyboys wreaking havoc on mosques and their faithful.
This government regime sickens me with its blind arrogance and demonstrable stupidity.
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/01/05/ott-gatineau-mosque-vandalism-graffiti.html
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Thanks for the link. I suspect some people are more concerned by physical vandalism than verbal vandalism, perhaps failing to recognize that often verbal tyranny breaks trail for physical terror.
=================
“The Prime Minister told CBC’s Peter Mansbridge on Tuesday night that in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, the major threat to Canada “is still Islamicism.”” [G&M, Sep 7/11]
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/harpers-islamicism-quip-draws-heavy-opposition-fire/article2156458/
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Too soon to tell whether this was an actual hate crime, or just some random vandalism by some hopped-up cretins from the local high school (I know the neighbourhood…). Either way, it’s up to the so-called leaders of this country to denounce these things. As Raymond M wrote above, Kenney certainly jumped in when it was a synagogue being targetted.
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The PM denounced it. Didn’t you read the posts/links above?
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Before anyone jumps the gun…..remember, there are a few cases of Muslim’s vandalizing their OWN mosque in order to garner some sympathy. I’d wait a bit to see if anyone is caught or comes forward.
If the word “arab” is the best these vandals can do……they’re not to clever. It doesn’t sound like the kind of thing someone who spoke English as a first language would write.
If they catch the culprit, make him wash it off or some other amends.
As for how I feel about muslims (before you ask Warren). I’m fine with them as long as they don’t make special demands, or ask for Sharia law. Or kill their wives or daughters.
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I’m sure you will post links to back up your claim.
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The Federal Government has just condemned it…oh well, so much for that line of argument. Off to find something else they didn’t condemn or didn’t say.
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Harper has finally spoken.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/harper-condemns-heinous-attacks-on-gatineau-mosque/article2293892/
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“Or kill their wives or daughters.”
I feel the same way about Christians.
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“I feel the same way about Christians”. Wow, you are out of touch with reality. Have you ever heard of honor killings?
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Yes, in Canada we call it lots of different things: “domestic violence”, “spousal assault”, “murder suicide”, “murder”, to name only a few.
Stop pretending, for ideological reasons, that self-identified xians don’t commit criminal acts of violence on family members, or other people (ie: Breivik)
It seems to me that religious zealots of all stripes are all about ownership of women and children and keeping them subservient to dominant males. Such rigid archaic thinking often results in dead women & children when certain types of men are confronted by the realities of a secular democracy that supports human rights.
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In Bill’s world only Muslims commit domestic violence. I can only assume it is because he feels the majority of them speak funny and write with squiggly lines and are therefore capable of any barbarism.
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I go to Texas about 4 or 5 times a year, stay in Elpaso and work in Juarez. Texas is one of my favorite places to go. All you liberals, take off your conservative hate glasses for just a minute. Women are treated much worse in the Muslim world vs. the Christian world. Sharia law!!!!!
Phillip, you now nothing of my world, I have many Muslim friends. Bottome line, women are very subservient to males and pay the price if they step out (muslim societies).
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I know only what you choose to project, Bill. You go out of your way to project a deep rooted fear and loathing of Muslims, something your Muslim friends no doubt can pick up on as well. I’m sure you all sit down together and discuss exactly how their religion is the greatest current threat to the West and must be stopped at all costs? I would pay money to see that.
In short Bill, what you choose to project on these comments defines you as it does everyone who comments here. What I have seen of you, so far, is someone who chooses to fear and hate those who think and believe differently than you. Maybe that truly doesn’t reflect who you really are but that is all that has been shown to date. If so, you do yourself a great disservice.
And yes Bill, I am a Liberal. A card carrying, membership paying and campaign volunteering part of the Liberal Party of Canada.
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Men of a certain type are always certain other women are being mistreated but never “their own”. Funny how certain religious fundamentalist men speak for women, rather than women speaking for themselves.
Anyone ever been to Bountiful, BC?
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Philip, I’m not sure where I have projected “deep rooted fear and loathing of Muslims”, get off the crack man.
I was only stating facts and that Sharia law is pretty bad stuff. Please also provide me “fear and hate of who thinks
differently than you” projections. What I have noticed on this blog is when solid conservative points of view are brought forward
some of you liberals just like to “call names”, never responding with a point of view or good counter argument. The greatest threat to the west is debt and socialism, I don’t ever recall saying religion was the greatest threat. Please stop posting comments that are clearly not truthful. Philip stop distorting comments and post good counter arguments instead. Play fair.
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Scot, your just like smelter rat. You only ever say negative things to other people here. You actually never add any intellectual substance to any discussion. You need to look in the mirror buddy, your a bully and can never back up your point of view with out putting someone down. You need to grow up and start adding substance.
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There you go again. You just can’t help your self. Your P.s. is a put down. You are not capable of articulating your point with out adding a personal attack. You should work on this defective characteristic.
Remember, conservative views are the majority now, meaning your views are in the minority. 3rd place to be exact.
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You may not realize that you project those feelings in your posts but, and please believe on this, you do. As to the proofs which you demand, all I ask is that you re-read your previous posts, with a eye towards the perspective of some one who may not know you. You might come away with a different opinion.
And no Bill, I’m not on crack.
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Phillip, this isn’t the most friendly place for a conservative, so please keep that in mind. The most surprising thing about posting on warren’s blog is how very few people actually want to discuss a topic. I find the majority of people just want ignore points of view and spew insults. . I’m here to better understand the “lefts” point of view and expand my knowledge on different perspectives.
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Certainly this proto-blog is a tough place for for some Conservatives but I would argue the reception is friendlier than I would get if I posted on Blogging Tories or Small Dead Animals. It’s tough on those Conservatives who can’t seem to move beyond the same old talking points which may get a pass in other venues but not here. In short, bring your A game. There are some very, very good regular posters who happen to be Conservative.
One of the big attractions of Warren’s site for me is the wide variety of opinion which pops up on a regular basis. Truth be told I don’t know the actual political bent of every poster and I like that.
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I have many Muslim friends too. Most of them are just as assertive as the males and wouldn’t tolerate being treated as subservient. Unfortunately in most Muslim societies today women overall are treated worse than men. Not just Muslim women though. Christian women in Iraqi, Jordan, Syria, Palestine and Lebanon treated in the same manner. Because it’s a cultural, not religious, problem. Not to say all or even the majority of women in those societies are treated poorly but only that its more prevalent.
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Couldn’t get aboard that “I have many Muslim friends too” bandwagon fast enough, could you? I’m not entirely sure why friendship platform seems to be the place some Conservatives choose to launch their hate from but they do enjoy it.
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You said something interesting here (launch their hate). I think this is where you are confused. This has nothing to do with hate, he is only stating a fact. Conservatives don’t bring facts up to spew hate. We bring up facts to discuss and bring more understanding to a topic.
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Bill, a conversation or post which starts with the phrase: “I have Muslim friends …but” often doesn’t end well for anyone. I purposely used the the word “hate” because Islam and it’s practitioners triggers incredibly frothing and venomous responses from some (not all) Conservatives. I stress again that only some, I hope a minority, of Conservatives hold such poisonous views about another religious group.
I take it that you agree with Anon.’s point that the subjugation of women crosses religious boundaries and arises from cultural practices? If you do, it surely follows that those cultural practices have to be changed and spoken out against, not a specific religion? The facts seem to show that any religious group has practiced the subjugation of women, yet the focus is entirely on Islam, to exclusion of all others. That’s unfair at best and deliberately provocative at worst.
I would welcome a discussion on Islam, Bill. I freely admit that I am no expert on the subject but would love to hear what you consider the most admirable points of Islam. Perhaps your friends could provide some examples?
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I’ve heard of honour killings. Christians in African and Arab lands do it with as much frequency as Muslims. Because it’s a cultural atrocity, not a religious one.
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Scot, your the poster child for idiots. When facts outweigh your option you have to call people names?
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Blah blah blah….no one even knows what you’re talking about. Again.
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Jason Kenney, to his credit, weighed in too……..http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/statements/2012/2012-01-06.asp
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Smelter rat, you never have anything constructive to add, you just stir the pot and attack people with different views. Grow up and start responding with some intellectual substance.
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As soon as you start posting constructive comments, I will oblige. As long as you continue to spew neocon talking points, I will continue to mock you. eg: “The greatest threat to the west is debt and socialism”. Please explain how the Harper government gives a flying fuck about the country’s debt? They’ve been in power for 6 years now. And don’t go on and on about the Lieberals. Please explain the billion dollar G8-G20 boondoggle, the misappropriated funds that went into gazebos, MacKay’s use of helicopters for personal use….etc ad nauseum. Give it your best shot.
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Actually, some of the posters above are correct. It isn’t just Muslim’s that practice Honour killing, but they do make up a disproportinate number of the cases. It’s not so much a “religious” thing as it is a cultural thing. It just so happens that the cultures that practice honour killing on an industrial scale are not found in the religions of the WEST. Muslim, south east asia, India, etc.
That being said, one would have to be an idiot to equate culturally sanctioned honour killings as being on par with the douchebag who beats his wife to death.
thousands of women are maimed and murdered every year through honour killing in some of these backward cultures. That reality should not be diluted by comparison to Christians. There is no comparison.