03.27.2012 03:41 PM

The coming Ontario election

Before he even read the 2012 budget, this is what Ontario PC leader Tim Hudak said:

“[The] PC party cannot support this budget.”

The Ontario NDP, meanwhile, isn’t saying. But every PC trained seal is going to vote against it, Hudak says.

If there is an election – just four months after the last one – it’ll be on the head of the smirking frat boy named Tim Hudak. That’s a promise.

And we’ll win a majority. That, too, is a promise.


  1. John says:

    I just don’t understand Hudak. How stupid can he be? Let’s say he does win: what will he do differently? Nothing.

  2. Greg from Calgary says:

    He didn’t read it and he is against it? Yeesh. His job is to represent the people of Ontario. How can he do that is he doesn’t read it?

  3. James Bow says:

    How this reads? Like this:

    REPORTER: “You haven’t read the budget, yet. Why are you against it?”

    HUDAK: “Because WE didn’t write it!”

    Horvath, with her more nuanced approach, at least looks like she’s thinking things over. That will suit her better on the campaign trail. Hudak? Not so much.

  4. G. Babbitt says:

    Okay. someone in the Liberal party has to fess up. Hudak is either an android programmed from the Ontario Liberal party head office or they pulled a “Manchurian Candidate.” The NDP is screwed. This is an austerity budget with very little for them to support that won’t upset their base (Really upset their base), but Horvath knows there is no appetite for an election and has already sent signals that they aren’t going push one. Now cabinet Ministers can bully her daring her to call an election. And the Tories had two options: Support the budget by ensuring some strategic absences, saying people don’t won’t an election and now the Liberals are saying we were right along and blah blah….or they can force an election on an austerity budget where they will be cornered into saying that we would be even harsher, just like in the halycon Mike Harris years. AND they chose the latter. I’m googling “Senior Liberal” and “advanced robotics” right now.

  5. !o! says:

    He won’t have robocalls this time. The amount of attention to robocalling right now would make it suicide to do so.

    So much evidence emerging of suppression being used in the last Ont election.

  6. arvkw says:

    Wow some of you guys are idiots. The liberal party did the same thing federally. They decided not to support the budget without reading it. The NDP has done that too. Warren, you’re a smart man but I think Hudak can beat us here, its gonna tough if theres an election

  7. kre8tv says:

    Every time I say things like: “Hudak can’t be that dumb. There’s no way he’ll take the bait,” I’m proven wrong. Gloriously, spectacularly wrong.

  8. Tiger says:

    Bring on the election!

  9. Bruce the painter says:

    Can you imagine hudak campaigning on how much more HE would cut! Great campaign strategy Timmy. Ah… brings back fond memories of John Tory’s religious school campaign. Way to paint yourself into a corner Timmy.

    Anyways we all know Hudak has no balls. He knows Andrea will dance with Dalton and bail him out.

    ***Also Warren will SFH be doing any Clash covers tomorrow night?

  10. Mike Foulds says:

    With his support base of teachers, nurses, and unions being the ones dalton has chose to attack i think it might be a closer election than the last one. Horwrath may roll the dice.
    This round of negotiations/ bullying with the teachers has convinced me to withdraw my support from the liberal party.

    • Michael Bussiere says:

      Bullying? Teachers in this province get an average of $25K upon retirement for sick days they didn’t take. In other words, they are paid twice for going to work. My buddy is the husband of a retired teacher and is eligible for 12 free massages a year on her health insurance. Add to that summers off, Christmas and March break, and PD days, and job security, and and and…compare this to the manufacturing sector in the province and you got one cushy deal. The teachers can afford to give a tiny little bit here, and relative to what they’ve got, it is indeed tiny.

      • Chris says:

        I don’t know the number but there aren’t that many school boards that still offer the retirement gratuity.

        A retired teacher that is still receiving benefits is paying for them.

        Many non-teachers get 8 or more weeks of vacation time every year.

        PD days are not vacation days, they are “professional development” days. Do you ever have training sessions at your job? When you do, do you have to arrange alternate plans for the 25 kids who hang out in your workspace all day? No? Teachers do – that is why PD days are used.

        • Doug says:

          I’d really like you to back up your claim that many non-teachers get 8 or more weeks of vacation. I would be utterly amazed if even 5% of people outside the public sector get 8 weeks vacation.

          • Paul says:

            I get a whopping three weeks of vacation time after being at my (private sector and non-union, of course) job for nearly ten years, and I have a “cool” employer: we are paid quite well, work flex hours, get good benefits, and even get paid overtime during “crunch” periods even though we’re on salary. I’d hate to see what people working other jobs get, since I do realize my situation is somewhat above average.

            In my mind however, the very idea of a public sector union is the most diabolical construct imaginable: they work for an entity that is not only a monopoly, but it generates neither profits nor growth and consumes more and more tax dollars each year to provide the same (or less in the case of the TTC, for example) services. We need a government that is going to get tough on these “entitled to their entitlements” parasites regardless of the political cost or else we might as just well rename the province “New Greece.”

          • frmr disgruntled Con now Happy Lib says:

            All I can say is thank-god for unions, public or otherwise, or else Paul, you might find yourself chained to the workbench, with no overtime, shitty or no benefits, and working longer hours…….and you might also consider yourself lucky you have an enlightened employer….Before you make blanket statements, you might remember what working conditions were like for ordinary men and women before the advent of unions. As a one time union member in the health care field, I do.
            I find your “Im allright Jack” attitude a little disturbing…….

        • Tim Sullivan says:

          Who gets 8 weeks?

      • Mike Foulds says:

        With all due respect, if your best source to form your opinion is your buddy’s wife’s experience you may not be fully informed.
        I don’t complain about my salary. I’m not complaining about my pension. I’m not complaining about my sick days.
        When two sides are negotiating and one side says “We’ll meet to negotiate but if you don’t like what we are offering we will force it upon you” that is bullying – pure and simple.
        As to the details of my renumeration: you probably have made up your mind but I’ll give it a shot:
        1) 20 sick days a year is based on the fact that I work directly with as many as 90 adolescents a day, indirectly with 1000 adolescents, and they are germ factories whose parents send them to school with colds and flus because they have no other choice. That works out to 2 sick days a month of work for a teacher. If you are a parent you have probably experienced having a cold or flu while trying to parent – multiply that by the number of kids I am responsible for as a teacher. The gratuity is for us not using as many sick days as we are given. It is paid out at .50 on the dollar for a max of 200 days. That means we are saving the province money every year by not using them and they pay us back at .50 on the dollar. It generally equals what a business person with the same credentials and experience would receive as a severance package upon retirement. We do not have short term disability – we have a sick day bank.
        2) I don’t have a choice about the school year. It is set by the boards and the province. I do not want Christmas off – I am not Christian. I am forced to have it off. It is not a workers fault when their business is closed that they can’t work. I might prefer a longer work year and the added pay to work those extra hours. Many new teachers are desperate to teach summer school to make up for their meagre entry level pay.
        3) I’ve worked in manufacturing – I made more, had a pension I didn’t pay half towards, had equivalent benefits, could take my vacation when I chose, and didn’t get saddled with student debt to be able to do it – I worked more hours was the only negative. So please spare me that comparison- I don’t need to ask my buddy whose wife worked in manufacturing to understand it.
        And my last point: if your house burns down you don’t go and burn your neighbours house down so you’re equal, if I have my wallet stolen I don’t call the cops and ask them to take yours too- this is not a race to the bottom. I campaign hard for fellow workers in this province to get the benefits and working conditions they deserve. My pension, wages, and sick days did not cause this crisis. Why should I lose them to cure it? Attack the culprits who are raking in the money not your fellow workers.
        Dalton and Duncan have decided to paint public sector unions as the bad guys and ask us to bear the brunt of the mistakes made by corporations and banks in 2007-08. We didn’t cause it and neither did you.
        Best regards.

    • Ottawacon says:

      Yes, but the fiscal responsibiity, and the fact that the Ontario Tories have absolutely no credible economic plan, and do not appear to have the intellectual horsepower to produce one, have me likely voting for the Ontario Liberals for the first time since the Peterson era. So that is 1 in and 1 out…and I live in a swing riding.

  11. Cameron Prymak says:

    And I thought the federal Liberals had problems.

    We’re watching someone in real-time turn the Ontario PC Party into a rump and/or split it. He may be thinking Jack Layton, staking out ground like the NDP did during the minority parliament, but to me it seems much closer to McConnell, Boehner and Cantor et al. Their strategy of opposition at any cost is a Tea Party response and has cratered the Republican Party’s chances to regain the White House.

  12. DannyBoy says:

    This is not getting much attention in Southern Ontario but the Ontario Northland Railway and bus line is being sold to the private sector and Tory Nippissing is suddenly a hotbed for progressives………….howls of protest that could cost them hundreds of jobs………….some of their conservative chickens are coming home to roost!

    • Tim Sullivan says:

      The Libs have very little to lose in Northern Ontario. They are also not well liked. I come from a pretty solid pedegree of Liberals and even my family in the North is not keen on Liberals.

      Warren, it saddens me that the Libs, who have never had much support in Northern Ontario, are now not even liked by Liberal supporters. Dalton’s wife is from the North, no?

  13. smelter rat says:

    Let me preface my remarks by saying that, like Gord, I know fuck all about Ontario politics, but any party that forces an election 4 months after the last one, is , like Gord, out to lunch.

  14. David_M says:

    What would be the likelyhood of floor crossing or caucus resignations if both opposition parties opt to bring down the Government?

  15. dstm says:

    Labeling Timmy as a smirking frat boy is absolutely the best description ever.

    Now for the NB stuff
    McGuinty made a terrible mistake in 2003 and is paying and will continue paying dearly.
    The legislation to prohibit govt advertising absolutely stifles the Lib’s ability to tell their story. I believe (generally) its a good story. BUT. Dalton et al have been absolutely dismal at communication. I know and applaud Dalton on his high road approach but how much longer can those in the trenches attempt to tell the good story when the govt is fighting with one (or two) hands tied behind their back.
    For example, the budget today contains some very complex proposals (eg public sector pension) and already we have the likes of Solomon on P&P screwing up the message.
    And another thing.
    The Star opinion piece (yesterday) on the sunshine list was right on.
    Yet the press and the Torys/NDP. keep beating up on the public sector. And McGuinty gets the blame for public sector salary increases. At the very least they should factor in inflation to the $100k figure. Its so stupid when every other fiscal measure is inflation adjusted.
    Sorry about the rant but my original premise still holds.
    None the less appreciate your site every day

  16. Mulletaur says:

    Tea Party Timmy really wants an election ? I thought his party was $6 million in debt :


    Probably ran up the bills with the homophobic and racist calls made in support of their 2011 election campaign. Their new party president may well know something about those calls.

    In any case, if we have an election, perhaps they will run up their debt to $12 million. For a party constantly telling Ontarians they are better economic stewards, perhaps they should consider getting their own party finances in order first.

  17. Bill says:

    No way libs would win a majority right now. NDP and Conservatives would take more seats, libs would most likely win, but would have a smaller minority. The Drummond report has really displayed how bad things are for Ontario. This budget is a reflection of how poorly the libs have governed over the last 8 years.

  18. Elisabeth Lindsay says:

    Do you people realize that you are paying $10 BILLION each and every year just to service your debt?

    • Marc L says:

      That’s about 9% of government revenues. What it means is that for every dollar in taxes, only 91 cents is available for programs. THAT is the main problem with debt –debt service just eats up your revenues and you have less and less to spend on things that matter. Not a good value proposition.

      • william smith says:

        Only 91 cents how much do you have left after paying your debt, mortgage, car loan, line of credit and credit cards. This debt is manageable far more so than yours.

        • Marc L says:

          That’s a bad analogy. I’m not taxing people to provide them with 91 cents of services for each dollar I take from them. By the way, I have no debt aside from my mortgage.

          • Marc L says:

            oh, one more thing. You eventually do pay back your car loan and your mortgage. It doesn’t just get bigger and bigger. Your credit cards might, but then you eventually run into real trouble. Just like a government who runs deficits non-stop.

  19. Rob W says:

    As an Albertan, I believe that poll, but what you haven’t considered yet Gord, is that WR has very inefficient vote distribution (concentrated in and around Calgary) whereas the PCAA has very wide distribution and will pick up many more seats than the WR.

    Further, don’t discount the willingness of Liberal, NDP, Alberta Party and Evergreen Party supporters to swell the PC ranks if it looks like WR could form the government. We aren’t all whack-job right wingers out here. Think of it as the Provincial equivalent of centrist voters shifting from the LPC to the CPC when it looked like the NDP was really surging last May.

  20. Skinny Dipper says:

    I think that the NDP will officially oppose the budget. However, a few NDP MPPs will call in sick and not vote against the budget.

  21. Marc L says:

    What on earth is Hudak thinking? You can’t oppose a budget just for the fun of it! The fact that McGuinty has done this to himself — the guy is undoubtely the worst fiscal manager I have ever seen — is not a basis to vote against the budget. The damage he did is done. The extent of the restraint that is going to be put into place is more severe — much more severe — than what Mike Harris did. What more does Hudak want?
    What a clown!

    • Lawrence Stuart says:

      A ‘jobs plan’ (read: tax cuts), a ‘discipline and punish’ approach to public sector wage freeze (or cuts, no doubt), and an end to green energy initiatives.

      It’s the eternal recurrence of the same old peevish shit.

  22. Marc L says:

    If there is an election, I hope that McGuinty wins. Not just because Hudak is a farce. McGuinty created this fiscal mess. He should be the one who has to clean it up. He governed by pandering to the unions…he should be the one who has to deal with his “partners”, who do not seem too keen on the idea of a wage freeze. Good luck with that.

    • Mike Foulds says:

      Wage freeze is one thing.
      Taking away my sick days is another, my gratuity another, my pension another…
      We’d like to negotiate with the government without the threat of legislating us back to work if we don’t take their offer. You know maybe ask them to follow the law?

      Teachers in this province understand that we need to work with the government….the government is deciding that “work with” doesn’t mean a dialogue but a monologue of take it or leave it.

      • Bill says:

        Pension reform is the biggest one. Big fat gravy train. Taxpayers need to be disconnected from this run away express.

        Why and how did these plans every come to be????? These pensions are a huge liability to the taxpayer, no negotiating required, I’m very fine with take or strike till the end of time.

        • Philip says:

          Anyone, in 2012, who uses the cliche: “gravy train” is never going to be taken seriously at all. You can tip your hat to the Ford brothers for that gift.

          • Bill says:

            Interesting reply Philip. You seem to dislike the subject matter. I thought this day would never come, the Provincial and Federal governments are finally going to correct this huge imbalance. The taxpayer should be very happy with this.

  23. Ted B says:

    Gord – time to get your own blog, methinks.

  24. Lawrence Stuart says:

    Just a thought here for those public sector workers pissed off by this budget.

    If it comes to an election, and you want to show your displeasure and vote NDP, fair enough. But if you live in a riding where the expression of your displeasure is apt to elect a Conservative due to Lib/NDP vote splitting, please think about what you are doing.

    Cutting off your nose, etc.

  25. Mike says:

    Bring on the election! I am a liberal supporter, but under no circumstances can I support Lying Dalton anymore. I live in an area where he is ramming wind turbines down our collective throats, and now my riding is being penalized big time with cancelation of 2 major hospital renovations, the closure of the Walkerton jail and the sudden overnight closure of the Bluewater Detention Centre. Warren, with all due respect, the Liberal party of Ontario has NO chance of ever forming a majority government anytime soon. Rural Ontario spoke extremely loud the last election and it will be the same again the next election, by placing Liberals on the endangered species list. Cancelation of all wind turbine projects already approved but not constructed with a full and complete freeze on renewable energy might help the Liberals, but more then likely, Dalton has damaged the Liberal Party irreparably for many many years to come, much like the way that Alberta and western Canada wants nothing to do with the federal Liberal Party. As I said, I am a Liberal and I am speaking for many Liberals in Rural Ontario.

    • Warren says:

      You’re a Liberal, eh? Speaking for many Liberals, eh? Right.

      • Mike says:

        Warren, I do speak for many people who share similar thoughts and many are liberals too. I would hope that you and other liberals in the backrooms and in the Premiers office would start listening more to everyone and as a result, you might be in better shape politically. If you really want to cut the budget, then start in the education system by eliminating the waste of having a catholic and public school board in every county or city. In fact, surely there can be a way to incorporate Catholic wishes into a unified school system. As well, I know that savings can be found in the busing costs if all boards were merged together, as we don’t need 3, 4 or even 5 buses travelling our roads when 1 or 2 buses would do the job just fine. I’m sorry, but it is time for a change of government, just like in 2015, there will be a change of government in Ottawa too. Voters don’t defeat governments, governments defeat themselves with scandel, dishonesty, mismanagement and corruption.

        • Michael says:

          Well Mike, speaking as a rural Ontario Liberal, I am not sure where you get your facts from.

          I have only seen two groups opposed to wind turbines and The Green Energy Act.

          The first group are Conservatives. They are doing this purely because they think it will score political points. Otherwise why were 9 members, including Tim Hudak absent from the Legislature when it was time to vote for a PC MPPs motion for a moratorium on wind turbine development? If the PCs cared about rural Ontario and were truly opposed to turbines for legitimate reasons, they would have been there voting. The PC’s words and actions do not jibe. To me that’s the definition of hypocrisy.

          The second group opposed to wind turbines are those who are not benefiting directly from them. In a developments where all neighbouring landowners were paid, as well as the land owner with the turbine on his land, there are no complaints. Other than that it’s just the usual cranks.

          The people had their say in October. The PCs should accept the results of the election and get on with the business of being the official opposition. Perhaps if Hudak proposed some constructive alternatives he would be taken seriously. Otherwise those rural residents you claim to speak for will punish him for causing an unnecessary election.

          • allegra fortissima says:

            Just “usual cranks”? CBC reported otherwise:


          • Bill says:

            Third group who oppose: The Ontario taxpayer. These turbines are a joke. They produce energy at much higher price point than traditional ways. We should be waiting for real innovation that actually reduces cost.

            People did have their say in October, but that was before the Drummond report, which pretty much confirmed what rural Ontario had already figured out, this lib government is incompetent and needs to go. Hopefully the city folk will see this and get rid of these bums.

    • patrick deberg says:

      Mike mentions the word Walkerton. I seem to remember a gift the conservatives brought to Walkerton last time they were in power………………

  26. Mike says:

    Well Michael, I am not sure where you get your facts as you are sadly out to lunch. The area where I live, all neighbouring landowners are not and will not ever get a bloody cent from the turbines, only those who are lucky enough to have a turbine on their property. Instead, we are forced to look at these monsters and suffer from flicker and the constant noise that will inevitably lead to health problems, including heart disease. Indeed, whether you will admit it or not, there are numerous people already suffering health problems caused by these monsters and are in the process of suing the wind turbine companies. You talk that there are only 2 groups opposed to turbines, again sir, you have your facts all wrong. Yes, the Conservatives are opposed, but then so are landowners, local businesses in towns, city people and numerous groups all over Ontario that are opposed to Wind Turbines. Seems like there is a new group forming at least every week.

    Furthermore, Michael, you need to realize the other negative effects of wind turbines and the green energy act. In areas where wind turbines have already been constructed, earthworms have already completely disappeared from land close to turbines. What happens to soil with no earthworms? I will tell you, it will become like concrete and farmers lose the benefits of soil structure and natural drainage that these little miracles provide. In addition, fish have moved further out to sea away from the turbines too. Why might you ask? It is the same reason why earthworms have dissappeared too, the constant vibration of these turbines is what is doing it. Do you know what happens to property values in areas where turbines are a reality? I’ll tell you, those properties lose value, some have lost as much or more then 50% of their value prior to wind turbines being constructed. In fact, homes have been on the market for more then 2 years and still have not sold, and now, for your information, wind turbine companies, using taxpayer money are now buying those homes up. Another thing you have failed to realize with these turbines, is that with the turbine site and the appropriate laneway, some 5 acres of every 100 acre farm has been removed from production forever. Do you realize that in southwestern Ontario, we are talking about prime farmland permanently removed from production and with each industrial wind farm constructed, we are losing more prime agricultural farmland to these monsters then to urban development. Speaking of urban development, with the complete loss of power of the local municipalities in planning, etc, Ontario’s small towns and villages will not be able to grow at all. Maybe, before you run your mouth again about turbines, you stop and consider the negative effects of them first as well as get your facts straight.

    You talk about that people had their say in October, you are right there. However, the people in rural Ontario spoke very loud and very clearly NO to the Green Energy Act. I would like to remind you that 3 high ranking cabinet ministers lost in October, all of them due to the Green Energy Act and Wind turbines. Those ministers were Carol Mitchell, Leona Dombrowsky and highly touted future potential Ontario Liberal leader, John Wilkinson.

    Michael, I would also like to point something else out to you: the 4 hospitals that had future planned and approved renovations to be done within the next couple of years, 3 of them were in ridings that elected a Conservative MPP. I don’t want to think that there was some political payback, but in this case, with 2 of those 3 being in one riding where the sitting MPP announced the funding just last August and then threatening the people that you had better vote for me or else this funding will more then likely be gone. Unfortunately, her words did come true, and it is a very disgusting way of political payback.

    It really pains me to have to say this, but Dalton has to go, the sooner the better.

  27. Cameron Prymak says:

    Gord – his is interesting. What does it mean for the election?


  28. Woody says:

    Then how do you explain the near rout of LPO candidates in rural Ontario last year, including 3 cabinet Ministers (Wilkinson, Dombrowsky, Mitchell)? It was a clear referendum against wind and the Act. And yes, many of those rural landowners are benefitting from the FIT program. Doesn’t wash but such as it is.

  29. Dan says:

    Timmy has to be replaced.
    He said that he would vote against the budget:
    – without reading it,
    – not realizing that the only way to defeat the government was to rely on the support of the NDP party,
    – not realizing that in the event that he couldn’t bring down the government, the least that he might have got was some concessions from the liberals to get his support

    He has spouted off about supporting the Toronto Transit even against the wishes of council (wake up Timmy in the last election, rural Ontario supported you, now why would rural Ontario support more taxes to subsidize Toronto real estate values?)

    He still spouts off about tax credit. DUH, with a huge deficit and debt he is talking about cutting his revenue first! Cut costs first and revenue when you can balance the budget!

    He is constantly going off half cocked. Please replace him so that the PC party has a chance in the next election. Most loyal PC supporters are embarrassed by him!

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