— Musings —08.27.2012 06:06 PM
Leave Joyce alone
Or, you can be human beings, for once, Tory bastards. Your choice.
— Musings —08.27.2012 06:06 PM
Or, you can be human beings, for once, Tory bastards. Your choice.
I’m johnlees@mymts.net and I’m an asshole.
This is very sad. She was the hardest working Senator for decades and deserves our gratitude and respect.
What about New Democratic or Green Senators?? Liberal / Tory .. same old story!
Many, Many Thanks W.K. for your vigorous advocacy of Our Distinguished Femaled Senator, who is not able to adequately Defend herself at this time, against Thoughtless Cheap Shots from Classless Hypocrites.
I’m jimfitzpatrick@shaw.ca and I’m an asshole.
Gord Brown NEVER inhaled.
Nice try. Wordiest justification for attacking the sick I’ve seen in a while.
No kidding
Well said Les.
Joyce should have stepped down gracefully when she was diagnosed.
I can’t say why she did not,but it doesn’t look right at all. It is just wrong,and the Liberal Party does have to wear this one.
As long as no actual Senate votes were tipped by her vote, I don’t see why people can’t let this one slide.
If Senate control during that period were an issue, or committees tipped, etc., it’d be different. But it wasn’t, right?
Exactly.
No.
The article referenced isn’t an attack on the Senator, it’s an attack on the leadership that knew she was legally impaired but continued to allow her to vote and did not inform the public. If this had been Brazeau, my fellow Liberals would be up in arms. I read the article as well… and having met Senator Fairbairn many times, I feel nothing but sadness when I think of her condition, and wish her well. But the article wasn’t about her. It was about the LPC leadership decisions concerning her. Related – but different.
The reason it matters Tiger, is not that it would have made a difference, but the principle of the Senate. Let’s follow this logic to its end: If the LPC takes the position that a senator being legally impaired but still voting on legislation is totally fine, then where does that end? Why have votes at all if its just the majority party that matters? Might as well just have the PMO call the shots. (I know this is how it works in practice, but it bloody well shouldn’t, and if our party stands for actually making Canada a better place we need to stand on principle all the time. Not just when it’s convenient. Or do we just stand for Sussex?)
How can the LPC be of the position that the Senate functions well and is important (both things that I agree with) but so casually look at the integrity of an individual vote?
Attempts to cast this as a personal attack on the Senator are exactly what it seeks to cast the article as – A cynical use of her condition for partisan ends, just this time for your ends Warren, not the NP’s. No offence to you Warren, but that’s my opinion. Do with it what you will. I will continue to read your material haha, and as I more often then not do, will probably agree with you. But on this one, I’m afraid I’m out.
It was an attack on LPC leadership decisions. One that is arguably justified. I don’t like having the party cast in a bad light anymore then any other card carrying member would, but I’m also done with being the party that runs from the truth. Our senate leadership made a bad call – one they should have known was going to blow up in their… our faces.
As for the Conservative Senator – I obviously can’t speak in more depth then what the article states, as I don’t follow the internal machinations of the Senate, but based on the quotes he sounded pretty even handed and concerned for, as I said, the integrity of the Senate. Just because he’s a tory doesn’t mean he’s always wrong. Frequently wrong maybe 😛
I know this is getting kind of wordy, but I figured a response to an issue this serious deserved more then a two bit attack line.
Wordy, yes. And the words you gutlessly left out are your real name.
Point taken Warren. My name is Ryan
Alas, I won’t give you my surname. Maybe that makes me gutless, but there are those less honorable then you who tend to use names as a way to focus personal critisism rather then to debate the points raised. It’s much easier to attack a person then an idea – as the LPC should know quite well.
Your blog, your rules. I won’t post again if you prefer that I use my full name.
My point is that I don’t take civics lessons from boys who lack the gonads to use their real names. It’s pathetic.
Oh, of course you have to ease her out of there, but there wasn’t any actual harm done by her finishing the session.
I’ld say the gloves are well & truly off. The Vic Toews debacle is absolutely nothing to what is coming down the pike.
The Marquess of Queensbury Rules are truly for fools …………………. and the high road ends, like everything else, in the gutter in Ottawa.
Be careful what you wished for, it is about to come true.
The question is not Senator Fairbairn or her commendable record of public service. The question is the Liberal Leadership in the Senate and the staffers who, after she was declared legally incompetent and they assumed her legal care, allowed her to continue serving in the Senate. I watched through many painful years as my maternal Grandmother deteriorated due to Alzheimers and the pain it put my mother through during that time. Senator Fairbarin is blameless, others are not, regardless of their motives.
Huh ? Its Glen McGregor at The Post and Joanna Smith at The Star who are raising serious questions about the propriety of having a legally incompetent individual make spending decisions and cast votes. Neither of them are Tories.
My reaction, as a proud Tory bastard, was to shrug and say who cares ? The senate is a useless rubber stamp.
Usually its earnest academics/journalists and Liberals who care about the reputation of the senate and defend its role of sober second thought.
Kinsella you missed the mark. Its going to be your camp that will be tut tutting this development.
What a classless article the sooner the NP fades into oblivion the better. This lady had class compassion character and worked tirelessly for those less fortunate. If you’ve ever had a loved one with this illness you it takes months not days or weeks to help the victim adjust with dignity. Those who have chosen to politicize this are beyond comtempt.
C’mon Warren, is the work of a sitting Senator serious or not? Put another way, isn’t writing, amending and approving legislation at its heart a legal endeavour? Could you legally sign a contract, let alone legislation, if you were deemed legally incompetent?
I have no personal grudge against the Senator, and I have every sympathy for her and her family. This is a trust and credibility issue of an institution of our government. Incidents like these slowly erode citizens’ confidence in government.
Tiger,
CPC zealots won’t let this slide because they just can’t help themselves. Their hatred of anything different has come full circle many times before this sad episode.
I’m a CPC zealot myself.
Very sad about Senator Fairbairn. Did a great deal of good as a journalist and then as a Senator. Hopefully the rest of her life, as difficult as it will be for those who love her, is peaceful as possible for her.
So, it’s okay that a person declared imcompetent is allowed to stay in the Senate…..
Tiger says:
August 27, 2012 at 10:04 pm
As long as no actual Senate votes were tipped by her vote, I don’t see why people can’t let this one slide.
If Senate control during that period were an issue, or committees tipped, etc., it’d be different. But it wasn’t, right?
Reply
Warren says:
August 27, 2012 at 11:07 pm
Exactly.
So, then Warren how long do you condone someone who is medically unfit or more poignant, intellectually unfit be allowed to stay in a position that runs our goverment? As a Liberal, I would suggest that you would have much experience with this type of situation. Also, had this been a CPC senator, you would have less compassion and a more partisan viewpoint and not agree to let this one “slide”.
I’m sure that no Tory Senator was told/assisted/cajoled into voting a certain way…
You take the high road with classy people who will take the high road too. But if you take the high road with the conservatives you will lose, because they don’t know what it means. Or if they do know what it means they would rather win at all costs than take it.
Warren,
Definition of impossible: the day that the political saints come marching in The Land of Mean and increasingly Heartless. It’s easy to blame one when all sides to varying degrees have gone out of their way to contribute to the poison that infests Ottawa. Political Ottawa made this bed and can bloody well lie in it.
When I think of Senator Fairbairn, I see her as an example of an ever committed person struggling with all her ability to serve Canada — to do her job right to the end of the session. Allow her the quiet dignity of doing so and more importantly, reflect on how that place will be diminished by her failing health and inability to contribute to our country going forward.
I’m a Conservative and with Warren on this one all the way. From her days as a journalist in the Press Gallery where I first met her in 1964 through her years in the PMO and the Senate, she has been a model public servant.
A woman who has served her country tries to preserve some dignity and purpose in life should be praised for her courage, not vilified by bastards. If there are any Conservative senators with a shred of dignity (and I think there are), they should come out in defense of this incredible woman.
She doesn’t need to be defended. She has an illness. Sadly it means she can no longer do her job.
I am afraid I have to agree with Jonathan Kay on this one: “Either the Canadian Senate is important and useful, or it is not. And if it is important and useful, then it demands intellectually competent members — which Ms. Fairbarn, sadly, isn’t anymore. If she is not legally competent to enter into a contract to buy a house or sell stock, why did her fellow Senate Liberals see fit to line her up to vote on legislation affecting 33-million people?”
The Senate is a joke.
My point is this: what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If we’re going to go on “competency” witch hunts, let’s do it across the board. And let’s particularly focus on the House, which has actual power.
I can think of a dozen Conservatives who I have seen show up drunk to vote. Are all those votes now void?
Michael Bryant too. Might explain the pitbull thing.
Agree with Chris Ralph. This issue has nothing to do with respecting a hardworking senator. Physicians have certified that she is cognitively impaired to the point where she can not make decisions about her personal life. How can she be expected to make reasoned decisions in a parliamentary system where her vote potentially impacts over 33 million Canadians? If she was CEO of a corporation, on a board of directors or even a branch manager of Canadian Tire she would be required to resign/retire the moment she was declared mentally incompetent.
As for respect-she is absolutely deserving of respect. So hold a big ceremony, celebrate her hard work, her accomplishments and her role as a leader, and then let her age privately and with dignity.
A few months ago, my father had his drivers license taken away due to worsening dementia.
It broke my heart. A big piece of his life was removed. He’s still angry about it, and he doesn’t understand why everyone’s out to get him. But to allow him to continue to drive would have been heartless towards those on the road with him.
If someone with dementia can’t drive a car, how can they drive a country? Wouldn’t that be even more heartless towards those who depend on the senate to be a competent legislative house?
The myth of the radical right, and they have lots of myths, is that all parties were responsible for the poisonous atmosphere in parliament. Well I pay very close attention and while there has always been partisanship, the real poison began with the arrival of the reformers. They really have a very very tenuous connection to truth and facts so they will say that what I have just said is not true as though they think I have an empty head and can be convinced of lies really easily. Forget it fellas. You don’t fool me. Then they will start badmouthing and bullying me to keep me quiet. Isn’t that how it goes. Forget it fellas. I am not afraid of you.
Anne, your not in a booby trapped room right now waiting for the thought police are you? Who exactly wants to bully you?
Did someone tell you you were not allowed to vote or work for a political party? And bad mouthing? Like “fuddle duddle off”?
I loved that one. Or choking a loud mouthed demonstrater?
I think I stopped being a Liberal when Liberals stopped hating the other guys ides so much that they stopped saying fuddle duddle off in the HOC and wont elect a leader who would choke the life out of an asshole for being an asshole. Write all the reasons why, but, if it aint worth fighting for why is it worth my vote. So Anne, “poisonous atmosphere” is always the other sides excuse for failing. I read this blog cuz he’s one of the very few Liberals that get it. Fight back for crisakes and quit blaming everyone and everything for not being better.
It’s funny. The Reformers came to Ottawa with the intention of bringing a new level of civility to Parliament.
They weren’t even allowed by their leader to heckle at the start.
What happened? They were eaten alive by the Hill veterans on the other side. Which is fine, that’s how it goes. So, they learned to fight back.
That’s life, that’s politics. It’s been that way since before 1867 in Canadian politics, and it’ll always be like that.
Joyce Fairbairn did great work for Canada. She should be lauded. It was her guardians who let her and her country down.
I’m sorry, what do the Conservatives have to do with this story?
Nothing
So McGregor and Press report a story. And they report it straight up, with no opinions offered on it. Just the facts, leaving readers to make of it what they will.
Those heartless bastards.
I’m Michael Cummings mcummings14@rogers.com and I’m a jerk. Hate me. I do.
Dear Warren,
Any drunken, stoned or otherwise indisposed parliamentarian who’s at work should be reported, regardless of the reporting or indisposed members’ party.
Not for some kind of childish ‘Joyce revenge’ but because our honorable members hold an important position.
That these positions are often treated as a country club privilege is more than disappointing … as is a typical ‘question period’.
My best wishes to Joyce. Her hard work to make ours a better country will be missed.
Cam
This article, and all the manufactured hype around it are clearly full of shit. No balance of power is affected, no impact on legislation, or anything of substance. Nothing is at stake here except for the creation of hot air to keep the Senate Reform balloon afloat to the benefit of the Refomers. Of course, the other thing at stake is the dignity of Senator Fairburn. and the difficult job of helping her off the stage….. Makes me want to puke.