05.09.2013 06:20 AM

Is God dead?

Quote:

“…although the proportion of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs is on the rise in Canada, the marked demographic trend is the increasing number of people who claim no religious affiliation at all. The new survey suggests that nearly 24 per cent of the people living in this country do not belong to any particular religion. That is up from 16.5 per cent in 2001 and 12.6 per cent in 1991.

In other words, the percentage of people who do not feel aligned with an organized belief has nearly doubled over the past two decades.

Christianity remains the dominant religion in Canada, but all of the Christian faiths, with the possible exception of Orthodox Christianity, are experiencing a decline.

I react to these statistics in different ways.

As a student of politics, it suggests to me that the strategy the Harper Conservatives have pursued – championing Christian Right causes, demonizing Muslims – is not very smart. Demographically, they are effectively putting themselves out of business.

As a church-going Irish Catholic guy, it makes me sort of sad. I’m no missionary – I consider religion to be an entirely personal affair, and detest those who are always lecturing and hectoring others about it – but I know I draw considerable comfort from my faith. It gives a measure of hope to me and, I believe, others. So how do the growing number of non-religious folks get by without hope? I’d find that pretty hard to do.

Finally, as a citizen, these statistics make me pretty happy. We are a peaceful diverse society, and growing more so. We are the envy of the world for this. It’s good.

Anyway, those were my reactions, from different perspectives. Surprise, a bit sad, happy.

What do you guys think?

29 Comments

  1. Andrew says:

    We get hope from other things. Don’t assume that we heathens are all hopeless, it’s one of the more irritating assumptions that church going folks make. Being free of religion allows the mind to be totally free, and that gives me hope.

    • jen says:

      Glad the first comment here was this one. This was exactly my reaction. I have plenty of hope. It’s just not based on supernatural beliefs.

      • George says:

        Ditto, both Andrew and Jen’s statements. I don’t feel like I’m missing something if there’s no afterlife. Makes me value my time on this planet that much more, and, hopefully, treat others accordingly.

  2. Philip Lococo says:

    Many people who profess no religion these days do so because they often don’t reflect the primal spiritual inspiration that they feel. That’s a good thing.

  3. Mark Weusten says:

    God can’t be dead if he never existed in the first place. Religion is rooted in superstition and driven by culture. As such, it can be good. BTW, very unfair and dishonest swipe at Harper Conservatives.

    • ray says:

      I was watching a newborn by the stable door
      when the Lord herself passed round quarter to four
      I offered them peace but they keep choosing war
      I don’t think I’ll come back here anymore.

      ray in Kingston

  4. James Bow says:

    I’m an Anglican myself, and I can’t think of giving up my faith because it gives me a lot of comfort. How do non-religious people “get by without hope”? I don’t know, but from my experience, most do. Indeed, most have hope. I guess they find it in different ways, and perhaps they’ll tell us how.

    I will point out, though, that just because one doesn’t follow a particular religion doesn’t necessarily mean that one doesn’t believe in God or something spiritual. If you think about it, religion is separate from God. God created humanity, but humanity created religion to try to understand and worship God. Think it’s likely we’re going to get everything right? And even if we don’t, do you think that God, whatever he or she is, would be terribly put out about it?

  5. Paul says:

    Religion, I argue, is immoral. Not only does she want you in the present, she also enslaves you after death. Knowing my body will create energy for new life, giving back to the earth, is good enough for me. I’m fine with death and the total finality that comes with it. Grow up people and don’t be such scaredy cats. What massive hubris man possesses.

  6. I find comfort in the fact that the hope I do have is supported by evidence and logic and it is not some story that just happens to produce the feeling of “comfort” and “hope” in the human brain.

    My hope comes from the observation of the ongoing improvement of the human condition over the last 20,000 years of civilization.

  7. phil says:

    Religion, I argue, is immoral. Not only does she want you in the present, she also enslaves you after death. Knowing my body will create energy for new life, giving back to the earth, is good enough for me. I’m fine with death and the total finality that comes with it. Grow up people and don’t be such scaredy cats. What massive hubris man possesses.

  8. JH says:

    I’m an Irish catholic guy myself and do draw comfort from my belief. Don’t go to church as often as I should and I’m not as nice to my fellow man as I should be either. Little disappointed that my young adult children don’t really practice their faith or educate their children in it, but what can you do? It’s a new day I guess.
    Still, I find being able to say a little prayer in times of stress or for my deceased parents etc. is a positive in my life. As I get older the faith and traditions of my younger days become more important to me and also give me perspective on what’s to come.
    I’d never try to foster my beliefs on others, but felt the need to offer an opinion on the topic.
    Thanks for the chance.
    Don’t believe bringing politics into it was necessary though.

  9. Marc L says:

    “So how do the growing number of non-religious folks get by without hope? I’d find that pretty hard to do.” Why do you assume a religion is necessary to have “hope”? I’m not religious, I don’t believe in God, and I have never felt that I needed a religion to have hope.

  10. Kelly says:

    As a nonreligionist I have real hope based on the examination of evidence. Faith just isn’t good enough; it provides false hope. Mind you now that it’s clear the Harper cons have done real damage to the census and what we can know about our country I have less hope than I used to.

  11. Iris Mclean says:

    I was brought up in a Christian (Presbyterian) family, and was forced to attend church weekly. By the time I was ten or so, I got sick of being told by some old fool in the pulpit that I was a sinner and will burn in hell for eternity, and bullshit like that. I totally rejected everything to do with Jesus and God in my early teens. Now, at the age of sixty-five, I think it was the best decision I ever made.

  12. Shane Anderson says:

    I was born to a Catholic mother and an Atheist father. My mother wanted me to be baptized and raised in the Catholic faith, which my father did not argue. I attended Sunday service and “Sunday School” up until grade 9.

    When I look back, I believe that I started to question organized religion when my mother was banned from the church for asking my father for a divorce around 1980. I found it ridiculous that a woman with such a strong faith would be told that she had to stay in a marriage with a man she did not love or be kicked out of the church, simply because a book that was written almost 2000 years ago, said so.

    As I grew up, I found that the more I read and experienced in life, the less I could believe in a God. It seemed too much like believing in a fairy tale. It was man that wrote the books that millions of people follow every day, and as we all know, man is very much a flawed species.

    That being said, I don’t consider myself to be an atheist. I am an Agnostic. I don’t believe in God the way organized religion does, and I never will, but I am not arrogant enough to say with all conviction that there isn’t a God. How can anyone say for sure that there is or isn’t? Stating for a fact that there is or isn’t a God is as ludicrous as saying that I know for a fact that we are the only planet in the universe with life on it. We have no way of knowing!

    Do I have hope? Hope for what? An after life? No. Is that the only reason to live? Is that the only reason to live a good and honorable life? No.

    I live my life the best that I can. I try to be the best person that I can. I don’t judge others for their beliefs and I ask the same in return. I want to enjoy my life, my time, and the people around me as much as I can in the short time that I have on this planet.

    If there is a God and there is a Heaven, I can only believe that he/she/it would know that I did the best that I could with what I was given and welcome me as any loving creator would.

    Does that answer your question?

    Cheers.

  13. catherine says:

    As an atheist, I find hope all around me, in connecting to others, in loving, in being loved, in learning more about the universe, in the amazement of nature. Since I don’t believe in a supreme being, I find it absolutely amazing how the universe has evolved the past 13 billion years and am in awe just being a conscious part of it all – for one minuscule slice of time. There are so many things we do not know, whether we are religious or not, such as what the ultimate fate of our universe will be, whether the arrow of time started in an instant (such as the big bang) or extends to negative infinity, whether life exists in other parts of the universe (statistically it must, but we have no concrete evidence that it does),… Also, most humans share so many common values irrespective of their religious beliefs; we are connected in ways that transcend any specific religion or lack of religion, and much hope is found in those connections.

  14. Basilisk says:

    God can’t be dead. I follow his twitter feed. Duh!

  15. !o! says:

    It had an effect in the US in the last election.

  16. patrick says:

    Nothing worse than the politics of division. It creates a level of irrationality that a simpleton is able to turn modes of transit into a left vs right position as opposed to means of moving people from point a to point b.
    I think the reason for the shortened census is that it will be easier for the conservatives to control and divide the nation with less information.
    As for god providing hope? Other than hoping for magical solutions for the whims of fate and eternity after death, I have no idea what that hope does in the real world.

  17. Ted B says:

    Non-believers are some of the more hopeful and optimistic people in the country, whereas some of the most hateful, cynical and apocolyptic people are often believers.

    I look at all of the human accomplishments and progress in our history, and I know that humans – through their own ingenuity, caring, compassion, drive, etc. – created it all. God had nothing to do with that. So the more we learn about our world, the more capable we become, and the more we aspire to human greatness instead of glorifying some deity or crediting him/her/it for all that is good (but never all that is bad, of course), the better we become.

    Not believing is at the core of my optimisim and hope for humanity.

    Whereas many I know are full of religion and because of that are very down on humanity: all inately sinful, asking questions = turning away from god = destruction of our society, battle of good vs evil, culturual wars, war on [fill in the blank], etc. They are the ones without true hope. They are the ones that make me sad.

  18. Sean says:

    I’m a theistic agnostic, but I grew up Catholic. My view is that there are sociological / survival driven explanations for most religious movements. “Our village’s God is correct and theirs is wrong because they stole our crops” etc… When it comes to Catholics, I just can’t reconcile the idea of a Church hierarchy, the treatment of GLBT, sexist ordination and mandatory celibacy. It is so obviously contrary to the message of Jesus.

    However, I see a lot of value in other’s faith. I have friends who are Catholics, United, Anglican, Hindu, Muslim and that is terrific. I have attended services at Churches, Mosques and one Hindu temple in Markham which was incredible. BTW, the buffet during Diwali is unbelievable. I personally lean more towards Plato then Jesus, but that is my own considered point of view.

    When it comes to hope, look to nature. There is too much out there for everything to be meaningless. Something is going on, but we are not meant to understand it.

    When it comes to the Tories using religion, this is still a smart strategy. Religious numbers are shrinking but those who remain are often feeling threatened. They are a shrinking group, but they write cheques to the CPC because they don’t know any better.

    • Ottawa Civil Servant says:

      What a pompous ass: ” I personally lean more towards Plato then Jesus, but that is my own considered point of view.”

      So you are are a polytheist. You believe the “gods” run around interfering in our lives are responsible for our good fortune. The gods, in Plato’s eyes, should only be represented as good, and pious, because it is the nature of divinity to be good.

      I believe Warren’s question was simply to offer our opinions of the survey, not dump on faith, religion or tradition.

      My two cents: Faith is stable, Christian community is not, therefore it will be a change at a social level: And societal change is NEVER managed easily.

      • Lawrence Stuart says:

        Oh, really? Plato’s Socrates is the harbinger of the death of the gods — the ancient gods — and the overturning of mythos by logos.

        Yes, Virginia, Socrates initiates history as the history of reason.

        Now, as to what you mean by ‘faith is stable,’ as opposed to a Christian community, I have no clue. Outside of community, communion seems to have little meaning, and without some kind of communion, community seems a hollow shell. I would suggest that a multiplicity of communions are possible within a community of genuine tolerance and understanding.

        Tempered (but not replaced by) by reason, faith need not be dogmatic and exclusive:

        Once I asked the muse, and she
        Replied:
        In the end you’ll find it.
        Those born to die can’t grasp it.
        About the highest mysteries, I’m speechless.
        One’s true native land, like the laurel,
        Is forbidden fruit, the last thing
        We all taste

        –Friedrich Hölderlin,

  19. GPAlta says:

    I’m surprised that it is only 24 percent.
    I hardly know anyone who aligns with a particular religion.

    Hope has do do with the chemistry in your body, which you can influence in many ways- nutrition, medicine, social interaction, music, art, sports, and yes, religious practice.

    Many religious practices are very good for your physical and mental health, and the health of the society (meditation, prayer, fasting, community ceremonies, charity), but what is bad for society is the effect of people who adopt the dogma but don’t do the practice. If you are not doing the spiritual workout, then the dogma is much worse than worthless, it is evil, and it inspires hate and suffering on a scale as great as any other evil humans have ever invented.

  20. Philippe says:

    The same trends towards atheism are happening south of the border, too. I like that.

    I was brought up through a catholic school system, so my take is that organized religion hasn’t kept up with the times. No women as priests, anti-gay marriage, ridiculous rules nobody except Jason Kenney follow such as “no sex before marriage”, anti-abortion… Seems to me that the church’s resistance to change is their own downfall.

  21. Kaspar Juul says:

    Interesting points. When you break down the numbers for Vancouver, its startlingly different than the rest of North America. I think its more just that our society is becoming more secular and tolerant over time. That is a good thing actually as people should have the right to practice or not practice the religion of their choice without pressure for any group.

    I have to say I was surprised by the results for central Canada. Growing up in Ontario, I didnt experience a lot of hardcore religious folks but that could have been my part.

    When put into a political context it most definitely is strange, but we do have pockets out west that buck that trend as well.

    Here’s an interesting article about religious trends in BC. Its an interesting time to live out west. Change is in the air and I hope with the changes we can overcome many of the things that irritate us and challenge us in the future.

    http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/05/08/b-c-breaks-records-when-it-comes-to-religion-and-the-lack-thereof/

    Im pretty sure most easterners wont call you a godless heathen. Religious affiliation could be as simple as being raised Christian and identifying with it culturally while not practicing religion. Everyone knows someone who considers themselves a Christian but hasnt been to a Sunday service since Joe Clark was PM.

    It would be interesting to see the religious breakdown within provinces and see if the large urban centres are more or less religious than urban regions. Plus what are the trends for religion in Canada. I know that the muslim population for Vancouver is projected to double by 2031. Not the same country as when we were young but to be honest Im more excited about the future than lamenting the past.

  22. Al in Cranbrook says:

    The interesting dichotomy is that people abandon religion often for the same reasons others turn to it: Lack of faith or trust in their current paradigm. The grand search for answers and/or peace of mind is eternal. And to that end, whatever works has its own justification.

    Personally, I consider myself agnostic. With no intention of knocking others out of their beliefs…

    I’ve spent years reading up on/ digging into the actual history of Christianity…a great deal of which is not very pretty…as well the related theology. As with most, if not all, religions, a great deal of mythology pervades among lesser bits of historical truth. Only when one begins to understand the contexts, certainly politically, leading up to and then surrounding life of Jesus, and the events therein, can a degree of clarity begin to unfold. And that’s just the first part.

    The second part is how things evolved…or perhaps more accurately stated…were manipulated after the fact of His life, and by whom, for what purposes, and to what extents.

    And once one understands all this, it becomes increasingly difficult to take the Bible, as a literal historical document, seriously.

    Initially there were two principle versions of Christianity: Orthodox as promoted by the Church in Rome, and Gnostic, which rejected the central church/authority in favor of self-enlightenment through spiritual quest. The Church went to exceedingly extreme lengths to eliminate Gnosticism that it deemed a direct threat to its own power, and by circa 600 AD, give or take, succeeded in wiping out most vestiges thereof…including by way of mass murder.

    Anyway, for those interested, one of the most fascinating authors I came across was Australian theologian Barbara Thering, who spent some 25 years studying the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course, her conclusions were very controversial, and (naturally) widely spurned by Christian hierarchy. But she made more historical sense out of the four gospels than pretty much anything else I’ve read before or since.

  23. bry says:

    “The strategy the Harper Conservatives have pursued – championing Christian Right causes, demonizing Muslims”

    In fact, they’ve done neither of these things. Probably would have helped them to have done more of the first.

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