09.10.2013 01:17 PM

Do you ever feel like you are losing your country?

This is one of those days, for me.

56 Comments


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    Michael S says:

    I never thought I would have to see this kind of shit in my own country. My father would find that sign very familiar, albeit missing the gothic script.


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      VC says:

      Aboriginal peoples have been the target of this “kind of shit” in their own country for as long as we can tell. This sign is all too familiar. And we are the only one’s that feel discrimination, institutionalized or not, formalized or not.


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        VC says:

        That should read: “we are NOT the only ones” …


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          Pentoth says:

          Well said.


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    Jim Hanna says:

    This is a travesty. The sooner we get rid of the PQ the better.

    And I truly hope that if this garbage legislation ever comes to pass, the federal government would use the power of disallowance and apply it to this law. If it can’t be used now then really, it could never be used. But it should be. And if the PQ want to pull us into a referendum over that – well thats a fight worth having.


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      Ty says:

      Um, no.

      Governments at both jurisdictions are equally chosen by the people. Differences between those levels, and disputes about rights people have under their laws are decided by the Courts.

      One level of government overruling the other in its own jurisdiction is the destruction of the Federation as we currently know it. Some powers whither away for a reason.


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        Ronald O'Dowd says:

        Ty,

        I think we need to follow Macdonald’s example — that is if we still want a country called Canada.


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          Ty says:

          Re; Secession of Quebec had problems, but the SCC got it right in distilling Canadian governing principles: Federalism, democracy, constitutionalism, and the rule of law.

          Disallowance is using the third to destroy the first two and strain the fourth. This is a test of the Charter, and should be played out in the Courts if it passes.

          Endlessly idolizing old leaders is the path to ruin. Macdonald governed an oversized colony and nearly broke it through recklessness, petty revenge, and inhibited decision making. Laurier, Borden, and King made a country called Canada.


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        Jim Hanna says:

        Its not a destruction of the federation as we know it; its a power that was there for exceptional situations. There is every chance that the Charter of Exclusion will invoke the notwithstanding clause, and so on that level will be bulletproof from the courts.

        If this federation can’t stand up for minority rights, what value is it anyway?


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          Ty says:

          “Its not a destruction of the federation as we know it; its a power that was there for exceptional situations.”

          The power hasn’t been used in almost a century. The federation, and the understanding of democracy, as we know it has evolved so that it is no longer necessary.

          “There is every chance that the Charter of Exclusion will invoke the notwithstanding clause, and so on that level will be bulletproof from the courts.”

          For five years. Plus, that section has far more validity than disallowance.

          “If this federation can’t stand up for minority rights, what value is it anyway?”

          The value of federalism is minority rights, of every region having the ability to suit laws. Minority rights are what the Charter and courts are for.


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    Michael says:

    Is this just an attempt to kick-start a constitutional crisis / separation campaign?

    a) Quebec government makes a law, claiming it is protect Quebec “values”.
    b) Federal government, opposition, other provinces and politicians / pundits of all stripes go after them on it.
    c) The law is challenged in court and (likely) deemed unconstitutional.
    d) Quebec government uses this as a wedge to fight sovereignty debate. You could just hear Marois saying, en Francais: “We Quebeccers are a nation, and we cannot even pass laws to protect our nationhood. We are blocked by a constitution we haven’t signed, and a country that doesn’t respect or share our values, etc…”

    Cue Quebec separation referendum.


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      !o! says:

      Heh, was about to type nearly the same thing– they have to know it will be struck down with a supreme court ruling, which leads to a separation campaign.

      It’s clearly politics, though, I can’t actually believe how much support this seems to have. It’s definitely a clever wedge if support is as high as polls suggest: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/09/09/montreal-quebec-parti-quebecois-charter-of-quebec-values.html

      “An online poll released today suggests public support is growing for the charter in Quebec.

      The survey conducted by SOM, one of the largest survey firms in Quebec, pegs support for a secular charter that would ban religious symbols for public employees at 66 per cent.”


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      Felipe Morales says:

      Michael: you took the words right out of my mouth! That is exactly what the PQ wants.


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        Elisabeth Lindsay says:

        “Step into my parlour, said the spider to the fly”.


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      Michael Bussiere says:

      Insert into this scenario:

      a) Harper is chastised for refusing to commemorate the anniversary of the Charter, saying that to do so would be offensive to Québec. Of course we all know the real reason he ignored the anniversary.
      b) Harper’s donor base demonstrates that it actually supports any legislation which would limit the rights of Muslims. I may be going out on a limb here, but if my Harper loving/ Muslim despising neighbour is any indication……
      c) We are reminded that Harper once stated that he would oppose any legislation which would alter the ethnic make-up of Canada.
      d) Conservative backlash?
      e) The Clarity Act is invoked. Harper cannot refer to it, as it was Liberal legislation. Mulcair cannot endorse it.
      f) NDP backlash?


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        GPAlta says:

        To be fair, your own quote demonstrates that Kenney is only against this if it turns out that it is unconstitutional. Harper is still the weasel.


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    Paul Shtogryn says:

    It might come to it .The PQ will probably win the next election and with that another referendum.Perhaps Quebec will secede in my lifetime.


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      !o! says:

      Well, the provincial liberals are still ahead as of the 1st week of September. http://www.threehundredeight.com/p/quebec.html

      If 66% of Quebecers are in support of this charter change, it all depends on how much of a priority this issue is to Quebec voters.

      Wonder if we’ll see an election soon. Puts the CAQ in a pretty interesting spot.


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    Stephen Clarkson says:

    It’s called “secular liberalism” french socialist style…. and you would fit in nicely.


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    deb s says:

    okay, im going out on a conspiracy limb here…but is the endgame for Quebec to make itself so despised that we vote to kick them out of canada. They cant get the separation to pass the one way( with there peoples)…maybe this is the plan to get the rest of canada to separate from them?
    lol


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    Michael Bussiere says:

    It would have been very helpful if they would have depicted the turban and hijab wearers as being dark-skinned so we could readily identify who this was targeting.


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      Eric Weiss says:

      Maybe the law will only apply to albino Sikhs and Muslims.


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        Bluegreenblogger says:

        Nope, if their skin is dark, you do not NEED a turban to know they are not pur laine.


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    Jnap says:

    i have interacted at the workplace with several women who wear headscarves. not one of them felt the hijab was reducing their equality. Only one said that it was done to please her religious husband, but that she was free to remove it should she want to. Marois has obviously no knowledge of religions other than her own nationalism.
    The best way to teach tolerance is to let schoolkids find out that there are good people in every faith tradition.


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      Michael S says:

      That’s what terrifies them. Education is indoctrination in their books.


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    Michael Bussiere says:

    Alberta has sure come a long way from when Stephen Harper said he would oppose any legislation that would alter the ethnic make-up of Canada.


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    Bluegreenblogger says:

    Grotesque. Almost unbelieveable. The only thing that comes close IMHO is last years storm of hatred raised over Native Canadians. In that case the CPC was complicit because they lit the fuse, and stood by quietly cheering on the racists and bigots. In this case it is formal, and explicit policy.
    The Anglo-Franco divide has been complex, and the treatment of Anglo minority has certainly been illiberal. Was bill 101 just the training wheels for Quebec society? Now they are coming for the Jews, Muslims, and Sikhs. Why do the haters find it so easy to turn racism to their advantage?


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    Kaspar Juul says:

    All you needed was the last sentence. The rest was small minded regional trolling


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      Kaspar Juul says:

      I have no problem with that. I’d like to see Albertan pride focused on Alberta and less on presumptions on what easterners are thinking. It’s a trait that, as a western Canadian myself, feel only acts as a detriment. You have come a long way since Klein and there’s still a ways to go. Is that a slight? Hardly, more an observation that things are changing fast. I just wonder when the west will realize the anger towards the east is a yoke that holds us back.

      The funny thing is whenever I’m back east, which was most recently last month, most people are more apt to mention what they love about western Canada. The problem’s not the people, but the politicians and no political party seems willing to truly change that.

      But, whatever floats your boat though.


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    Andrew says:

    Give “distinct society” a whole new meaning.


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    Ronald O'Dowd says:

    Warren,

    Keeping it simple: she will invoke the notwithstanding clause, if re-elected.

    Meanwhile, Couillard has some urgent work to do with francophones. Otherwise, Marois is likely to go to a referendum in a second mandate.


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    Brammer says:

    Good – Kenny has come out swinging against it. That puts in play a not-insignificant chunk of Con base who are for it.

    Bad – Marois’ proposal is favoured by a good majority in QC.

    Ironic – the title of your post “Do you ever feel like you are losing your country?” is the exact sentiment of those who think the QC charter of values is a good idea.


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      Warren says:

      Except we’re right, and they’re wrong.


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        Ronald O'Dowd says:

        Agreed. Also happens to apply to the Constitution Act 1982, where of course, I’m right and those snoozing since 1982 are dead wrong.


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    Sean says:

    Obviously I’m against this stuff. Am I surprised? As someone who reads a fair bit of Canadian history, I am not surprised. At all.


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    G. Babbitt says:

    That poster is viscerally upsetting but I am determined to be optimistic. Now that this out there I am counting on Quebec leaders from every part of society to fight the initial public support for this odious policy. I see intellectuals making it more difficult for people like Daniel Turp to defend this policy, I see atheist public servants wearing yarmulkes and headscarves; I see people avoiding equating the current premier with Quebec values. Naive maybe, but my anger will probably not be helpful.


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    Ari says:

    I think this poster shows that the PQ really doesn’t understand how many religious symbols there are out there and how diverse they are. Think of all the saints’ attributes found in Catholicism alone. Perhaps PQ MLAs would think a little harder about this issue if they were disciplined or sued every time they showed up to work with clothing or jewellery depicting a scallop shell, a lamb, a fish, a lamp, a wheel, a sparrow, a pelican, the colour green, a heart, a dove or that ancient symbol of the Blessed Virgin Mary so beloved of medieval French kings: the fleur de lis.


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      Gilles Ouimet says:

      The crucifix structure atop Mont-Royal is a proclamation of a Roman Catholic Quebec… and not only a ‘cultural’ symbol.

      Pray with us if you want to stay with us!!


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    GPAlta says:

    This charter is clearly a sign saying “your kind are not welcome here” and it is vile racism, as cynical and hate-filled as could be imagined by a governing party in Canada. The authors of this charter know full well that those who are devout enough to wear religious garments in the first place are also too devout to remove them for the sake of their employment, and so they are effectively banning them from government employment.

    But let’s use this moment of clarity to also illustrate why Justice Norris Weisman and Jason Kenney deserve to be held in the same contempt.

    Justice Norris Weisman has ruled that the alleged victim in an Ontario sexual assault trial must uncover her face if she wishes to testify against her alleged attackers. ‘your kind are not welcome in our courts’ effectively banning them from seeking justice.

    Jason Kenney made up a new rule that you can’t swear the oath of citizenship without uncovering your face. ‘your kind are not welcome to become citizens’ effectively banning them from seeking citizenship!


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    james Smith says:

    What cool airline safety graphics! They all look so cute so Argent & Ethnique.
    Where can I get my yellow armband with these images on it?
    Today we either stand with all of these “others” or we stand against them.
    I am sickened.

    Reminds me of the words of Pastor Martin-Niemöller

    First they came for the communists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

    Then they came for the socialists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

    Then they came for me,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.


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    Anyong says:

    When and where did Naheed Nenshi extend a welcome to Quebecers? This morning on CBC he is all for NOT wearing religious objects in public.


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    davidray says:

    What would happen if Florida told supporters of this policy to take down their flags and speak only English when down in the lower 48. Now that would constitute one serious sack of merde, n’est ce pas?


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    RDS says:

    Some random thoughts:

    1. A yarmulke? Ostentatious? Really?

    2. As an atheist, would I be allowed to wear a skullcap of some kind to cover a bald spot? What if it has a propeller? A propeller AND a Star of David?

    3. What about little old Italian ladies wearing shawls?

    4. Interesting that a nun’s habit doesn’t happen to be illustrated as “ostentatious” but Muslim headwear is depicted twice. I’m sure this is an oversight or coincidence?

    5. Is it the size of the cross that makes it ostentatious or is it just too blingy?

    6. How about one of those WWJD bracelets? A t-shirt with a slogan?

    7. The flag of several provinces, including Quebec, include crosses. Do we have to burn them, or can we just replace them with the completely secular maple leaf flag?

    8. Interesting that the only Christian symbol that’s prohibited is a bishop-sized cross, but of course no Christian is required to wear such a thing. On the other hand a devout Jew, Muslim, or Sikh would apparently be prohibited from holding these jobs. I’m sure that is just a coincidence.

    9. Interesting that a schoolteacher, who is apparently a representative of the province, is not allowed to wear religious headwear, but a politician apparently is. I’m sure this is some sort of oversight…


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    Gilles Ouimet says:

    If Marois attempts to have Quebec secede from the ROC, will she be able to maintain sovereign borders?

    I can see sections of Quebec splitting off from her ‘nation’ and defending itself against Quebec authority.. e.g. northern aboriginals. Is Marois prepared to defeat and incarcerate or expel rebellion factions within Quebec? Or is she gonna become “Madame Riel”??

    Would PM Harper become our “Assad” and militarily defeat the Quebec separatist ‘rebels’? Move over Syria, here comes Quebec!!


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    Kev says:

    Au contraire: as a pluralist and federalist, I have a new fight. And JT led the charge, with every other federal pol now following his… LEAD. And the sight of Harperbots having to defend the Trudeaupian Charter… Splort!!!!


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    Michael Bussiere says:

    Is it my imagination, or does the background of that poster look like an old prison wall? In any case, it’s creepy that they’re all up against any sort of wall.


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    Theresa says:

    this is unbelieveable – I have seen some very strange things come from Quebec – but this is absolutely detestable and inhuman.

    I never thought I would see anything close to this racist in Canada.

    Shame on you Quebec.


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    frmr disgruntled Con now Happy Lib says:

    Never happen…..but I think all turbaned Sikhs employed by the Govt of Quebec should have a day of protest…..and go to work sans turban with their extremely long hair(not cutting ones hair is one of the khalsa or tenets of a baptized Sikh’s faith) flowing in the breeze…….tying in a pony tail with fabric emblazoned with the fleur de lis would be a nice touch, methinks……

    It is deeply offensive to me that all faith’s are being attacked here…..but especially so for turbaned Sikhs…….many of whom fathers and grandfathers served nobly and fought valiantly with the Allies in WW II, helping to protect the freedoms that we all, including Madame Marois and her pur lainers, enjoy today.


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    Elisabeth Lindsay says:

    My first inclination would be to completely ignore these ridiculous bans and see if they actually had the nerve to arrest or fire me.


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    Tiger says:

    The feds won’t do it, because it’d be pouring gasoline on the fire, but man, I’d laugh if we saw them reserve and disallow this bill.


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    Paul says:

    Let me get this right ..the student population in Quebec is allowed to close schools , abuse peace officers, bully students who want/need to learn and graduate and riot in the streets over tuition hikes but see nothing wrong with what I/many consider are basic human rights – lets all put on our religious symbols and load the buses to Montreal…what a mess –


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    Paul says:

    oops ..should have said..basic human rights being trampled…

    Every provincial and municipal business development office should be beating down the doors to welcome all the “job creating criminals” into the ROC.


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    Bobby Trevante says:

    As Remembrance Day gets nearer, we feel that beyond this grievous attack on civil and religious liberties, this is a despicable attack on the veterans of various faiths. For example, by the end of World War II, the Indian Army (that contained Sikh, Muslim, and Hindu) had become the largest volunteer army in history, rising to over 2.5 million by August 1945 and was essential to allied victory against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. We should reunite and ally with the 1.2 billion Indian descendants of these veterans to staunch the contagion of PQ fascism. Further, much of the Muslim world was a staunch ally during the Cold War against anti-religion Stalinism. We should draw on the 1.5 billion Muslims to help defeat Quebecois supremacism. Probably can easily rustle up another billion from the Christian sects and other assorted faiths. So that’s 3.7 billion vs. about 6 million – 616 vs. 1. In addition, we will be demanding a complete boycott of Quebec tourism, products, and services. Beyond that, a massive protests until the Federal Government suspends transfer payments to Quebec. And of course, depend on my humble but occasionally vicious and devastating propagandic efforts. We reiterate: Renee Levesque, was with the first unit of Americans to reach Dachau concentration camp, and was profoundly moved by what he witnessed – so much so it was the impetus to cleanse Quebec of fascist elements via the quiet revolution. As the PQ works to put the national back into its version of socialism, would Levesque still say, “I never thought that I could be so proud to be Québécois?” The answer is no.

    The People’s Defense Front


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    frmr disgruntled Con now Happy Lib says:

    Great poster……but it read so much better in the original German……


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    Jason says:

    That’s a scary poster. Looks like it should appear in a old black and white footage, with “brown shits” and the like.

    Scary.


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    Carole Portelance says:

    Scary poster indeed. From the ugly grey background to the fact that everyone is depicted with white skin. The whole thing is quite sickening. However, encouraged to see there seems to be increasing opposition within Quebec to this. Once example is the declaration by the Indépendantistes pour une laïcité inclusive (Indépendantistes for an inclusive secularism) – this being the declaration that Bloc Québecois MP Maria Mourani singed, and for which she was booted out of the Bloc caucus. While I don’t suppor this group in wanting to separate from Canada, I applause their declaration that Quebec should be an inclusive and pluralistic society that respects freedom of expression, including freedom of religious expression. The full letter is as follows: http://www.ledevoir.com/documents/pdf/rassemblerplutotquexclure.pdf

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