03.25.2014 08:26 AM

Five reasons we don’t need jets on Toronto’s waterfront

  • “Whisper jets” is the biggest oxymoron since “airline food”
  • Jets belong at Pearson, where they can keep company with the other jets
  • The waterfront is a mess as it is – let’s not make it even worse, okay?
  • Porter is fibbing about its “facts” and plenty of other stuff – why reward them?
  • Dumping dirt in the lake to extend runways is, you know, dumber than a sack of hammers.  Dumber than a box of hair.  Dumber than Rob Anders. Dumber than…you get the idea.
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26 Comments

  1. rob says:

    The current dash-8s are jet powered as well. They use engines known as turbo-props. Turbo props are just a jet engine with a propeller on the front.

    The CS100s actually employ a turbofan. The issue of noise is complicated because certain frequencies are more irritating.

  2. grim says:

    From where I live away from the waterfront, I look at this issue through two lenses.
    First, having C-Series jets flying from YTZ would be uber convenient, owing to the extended range and destinations.
    Second, if it’s a bit loud down there, so be it. It sounds to me like something which affects a tiny minority of residents, who chose to live in the downtown core, next to the Gardiner, etc (they must like noise).
    The benefits seem to be very high, and the costs manageable. Put an every-10-minute shuttle into Billy Bishop from parking at Exhibition place, verify the noise level of the new engines, maintain the curfews.
    Putting infill into the lake to extend the runway? The water immediately around the airport is at best a boating lane to get elsewhere, it won’t matter to boaters passing by. If it’s dumber than a sack of hammers, well, it’s been done and accepted many other places – Leslie Spit, the F1 course in Montreal.. etc.

    Reading between the lines, those aren’t the strongest arguments I’ve seen Warren make on any issue. My guess is he doesn’t think it’s that bad, but it towing the campaign line… Warren?

    • rob says:

      Yes, I understand that you see it as a misunderstood issue that can be leveraged for political gain.

      If you look at the numbers, taxpayers don’t subsidize aviation. These expenditures by the various governments are recovered through taxes on aviation.

      http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/policy/anre-menu-3017.htm

      Why do we hate public transit that can move people at 500km/h (or faster?)

    • Redgerrymander says:

      Please… this insanity also affects anyone wishing to enjoy the Toronto Islands. You may have the means to ‘escape’ the city – but please don’t leave the rest of us to suffer through this. The islands and our lakeshore are a great asset that shouldn’t be threatened solely for the benefit of a few lazy ‘job creators’ and one private company. The more I see Porter and the useless Port Authority play games, trying to turn the harbour into their private playground, the more I want commercial flight banned completely from the island.

    • Michael says:

      Why is having jets at the island airport important. You want convenience, they are building a rail link to Pearson.

  3. Dan O says:

    I’m indifferent either way. I think the Pearson line is going to solve a lot of issues.
    Re: expanding the runway. It is my understanding that because of safety regulations they may have to do this anyway to accomodate the existing planes -but I could be wrong.

  4. Lance says:

    The tunnel is almost done, the expanded runway was only going to be a matter of time.

    This isn’t mere Porter’s propaganda; I’ve noticed a BIG reduction in fares across the board on both domestic and trans-border routes since they became a player. More competition is and has had a positive impact for obvious reasons, there is no reason to think that the trend won’t continue with the expansion of the runway and the subsequent provision of yet more options.

    That is the case for inbound passengers. I like the fact that I can fly out of Northern Ontario and do what I need to do in Toronto for MUCH less hassle and be back within hours for the same price it is to drive and book a hotel for a night for much more hassle. But for residents, that is another story entirely. In fact, I can see how that would suck for them.

  5. Nic Coivert says:

    Nothing is dumber than Rob Anders.

  6. Cranky Old Prof says:

    I like Porter. I take them anytime I can. (The train to Pearson will only solve the cost of getting there, Dan O, not the horrific crowding, lines, and delays. It’s the most unpleasant place in the GTA, apart from a rush-hour streetcar.) But I am not convinced that jets on the Island will make anything better. It will make Porter bigger (and worse). It will make the Island Airport bigger (and worse). Air Canada will immediately demand to fly jets out of the Island as well (making everything else there worse). Maybe what Porter really needs are just longer range turbo props.

    • Dan O says:

      Pearson is a busy airport, but let’s not make it doom and gloom here. You are going to share space with other people when you are flying -on the plane, in the lounge, checking in and through security.

      I like Porter because it is good for business travel (easy access). That said bigger doesn’t necessarily mean it will be worse. I’ve been unable to take off or land because of fog on a couple of occassions flying from Billy Bishop. The lounge can get quite crowded as it is already during the morning.

      Also Air Canada already has flights taking off from Billy Bishop.

  7. Ty says:

    6. All those rich people who come down to the marinas downtown and spend like gangbusters are going to go to move their boats to Oakville.

  8. Cameron Prymak says:

    I loved flying my little plane to CYTZ, I wish others could leverage it as a resource because of the convenience but downtown airports in major cities seem to be problematic. What a shame.

  9. Jacob says:

    Doesn’t Porter market itself to the “Downtown Elite”? You know, with the whole “Flying Refined” schtick?

    In that case, it doesn’t make sense how Ford Nation is so adamantly supportive of them… Oh, wait. It does. I makes sense because nothing makes sense.

    • Lance says:

      The “flying refined” schtick is not meant for elites, but aimed at common schleps like me to have an opportunity to fly for less cost but still in relative and comparative comfort. After flying connection flights to YYZ from the north via Air Canada and Bearskin to a variety of likewise destinations (which cost more and are less comfortable), there is nothing nonsensical to wanting and getting better service for a lower price.

  10. Andrew says:

    The runway may need to be extended regardless of councils decision to comply with new FAA and Transport Canada safety guidelines.

    • Redgerrymander says:

      Then we should be looking at shutting it down completely. The waterfront is not the place for a major airport, especially one that will monopolize the Inner Harbour AND potentially restrict development in the Portlands. Talk about the tail wagging the dog. Restrict it to private recreational planes before spending millions better spent on public transit.

  11. West Coast Jim says:

    Comparing Rob Anders to a Box of Hair is insulting to the Box of Hair and it should be withdrawn!

  12. I live in downtown Toronto, and I don’t want jet noise drowning out the sirens, traffic din, and trains.

  13. e.a.f. says:

    O.K. I live in B.C. and don’t know all the ins and outs about this, but I’ve seen pictures of Toronto Island. Why the fuck would any one have any airplanes on it? Who was the idiot who thought that up?

    The Vancouver harbour has water planes and that’s it. Works for us. There is a heliport, but air field? Thought Toronto had an airport. I know it did, went through it often enough in the 80s and 90s. Did it disappear or what.

  14. e.a.f. says:

    Gord you are sounding ever so much like a former B.C. premier, el gordo. “more land area in Lake Ontario ….nil impact on a body of water….”. Oh and how do you know that? You applaud entrepreneurship, right. Lets put the air strip in your yard, or better yet, move you house on to the air strip. Having more small planes brings with it the possibility of more small airplane crashes, just ask Richmond. The had one fly into an apartment building a few yrs ago. Then there was the one where the pilot did get to the road, so there was less damage.

    Perhaps the city might want to look at the new trains being tested in Germany and China. They go about 300-400 Ks per hour. Not bad. Very quiet.

    Dumping whatever into Lake Ontario could wind up being another disaster waiting to happen. These lakes are important to all of North America. They aren’t that large when you think of them in terms of the world and they are fresh water. The less done to them the better.

    As to “vested elites” , those are the ones who take these small planes. The rest of the working stiffs are in their cars or public transport. Air planes are not what we could consider public transport for getting to work, unless of course you are a lieberal provincial politician in B.C.

    Toronto would do well to not extend the airport on Toronto Island. it isn’t about now, its about the quality of living in 75 yrs from now

  15. This issue should have been dead in the water. We the Taxpayers are at this very moment building a train service between Union Station and Pearson. We already have an International airport, and when we have finished spending three quarters of a billion dollars it will be just as accessible as the Island Airport. The train service will be operating long before any Billy Bishop expansion is ready.
    SO why are we talking about slapping jets onto a runway right in the heart of the City? When it was a few small flights to other city centre airports, plus the occasional private cessna the Island Airport was misplaced, but fairly innocuous. Now it is not. And zero useful pblic need is served by expanding it. In fact, the public dis-service from occupying yet more of our waterfront should disqualify Porters proposal to add services that the public does not need.

  16. Island Airport expansion is a political death kiss along the Lakeshore, and downtown. Smack the Porter accolytes hard Warren. Plenty of votes to be had

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