08.25.2014 07:57 AM

Thank you, Kathleen Wynne (and others)

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64 Comments

  1. sezme says:

    For those like me who weren’t familiar with the acronym, I looked it up so you don’t have to: Murdered or Missing Indigenous Women.

  2. Joe says:

    As the husband of a beautiful aboriginal woman I think Wynne is trying to score political points with the no minds who think a government inquiry is going to solve what no government inquiry can ever solve or resolve. I honestly think that the call for such an inquiry is rank racism from start to finish. As my dear wife, who grew up on one of the most dangerous reserves in Alberta says, “Fix the broken reserve system and the death rate amongst aboriginal women will drop to the same rate as the rest of Canadian society”.

    • que sera sera says:

      Rank racism is pretending MMIW are a byproduct of a broken Reserve system rather than a broken Canadian society whose government demonstrably treats aboriginals as worth less than other Canadians.

      Rank racism is when the Government of Canada withholds millions of relevant documents and refrains from investigating & charging the perverts responsible for decades of child abuse in Indian residential schools.
      (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-taken-to-court-over-release-of-residential-schools-documents/article5904543/)

      Rank racism is pretending sexually & physically abused Indian children, warehoused in residential schools under the authority of Canada, are not entitled to the same legal rights as any other Canadian child. There is no statute of limitations on child abuse.

      I suspect when the Government of Canada consistently fails to hold itself to account for its ongoing industrial crimes against aboriginals, it will consistently fail to hold anyone else to account either.

      Another nail in the Conservative’s electoral platform: Justice for all Canadians except aboriginals.

      • Joe says:

        Sometimes it is better to keep your thoughts to yourself and thought a fool than to express them on the net and remove all doubt. que sera sera just removed all doubt. First of all it is not the government’s to provide one’s every need. Somewhere along the line each individual has to get to work and contribute to the betterment of the society in which (s)he lives. One of the biggest problems my wife’s former reserve has is too much government interference and too little individual contribution. With her ‘Indian Card’ my wife is entitled to more goodies, benefits and programs than the average non native could ever imagine. My wife being an independent sort REFUSES!!!! to accept any of those benefits. She has fond memories of the proud man her Dad was and how he provided for his family through hard work and natural smarts. She also remembers how ‘welfare’ destroyed her extended family with constant ‘partying’ and general sloth. Her cousins kids wound up in foster care because of the booze and drugs her cousins consumed. Several of those kids have fetal alcohol syndrome. One of the kids has to be fed through a tube because his brain was so destroyed by mom’s boozing drugging ways that he can not swallow. He is now twelve years old and when it is our turn to take care of him we still have to change his diapers. My wife often refuses to visit her extended family on the reserve because the family members have destroyed their own home. One cousin got a new house from the government and within two years the house was unfit for human habitation.

        In other words don’t lecture me with you ‘progressive’ shibboleths. They are part of the problem not part of the cure.

        • que sera sera says:

          Pretending your family problems are any more egregious or troubling than someone else’s family problems suggests you might need to get out more often, Joe.

          Blaming your family problems on “too much government interference” suggests you might want to loosen the tinfoil hat a bit and seek psychological help.

          Pretending your family members anonymous anecdotes fairly represent an entire ethnic/tribal group suggests you might be a few french fries short of a mchappy meal.

          Are the voices in your head bothering you?

          • Kaspar Juul says:

            You are familiar with Joe’s concepts of science, history, research, scientific peer review and proof? Unquantifiable anecdotes and opinion trump reality and he doesn’t want any “progressive shibboleths” to wake him from that fantasyland

    • Attack! says:

      sorry, but among other things, this assumes that most of the Aboriginal women who’ve been murdered or have gone missing are from reserves: that’s very unlikely, as the numbers include Metis, and even among FN’s, only, what, about half of them have lived on reserves, these days.

    • Attack! says:

      sorry, but among other things, this assumes that most of the Aboriginal women who’ve been murdered or have gone missing are from reserves: that’s very unlikely, as the numbers include Metis, and even among FN’s, only, what, about half of them have lived on reserves, these days. Unfortunately, the RCMP report does not give any kind of breakdown on this, however.

  3. Matt says:

    I know I’ll get flamed for this, but until someone is ready to be decidedly politically incorrect and fully and publicly examine all the issues both on reserve and off, a public inquiry will be nothing more than a fluffy PR exercise.

    Take BC. It was determined that one of the reasons so many aboriginal girls went missing on the highway of tears was that a high percentage of them hitch hiked to other towns. The first nations answer was that the government should pay for a bus service for the girls.

    Really? How about some serious, honest self evaluation to see why so many girls feel they need to leave where they were.

    • david ray says:

      You really are an idiot.

      WE take holidays and paid vacations
      on lands WE stole from the Indian nations
      and the vanquished left to rot / on empty parking lots
      WE dared to call reservations

      give them back their land
      it was theirs for thousands of years
      and long after WE are gone / their song will be sung
      it’s in the trees, it’s in the land
      you can’t take that from the Indian man
      WE are only / hollow grains of sand

      • Matt says:

        We stole?

        This isn’t America.

        • KevinT. says:

          Uh, yeah.

          That wasn’t informed.

        • davidray says:

          Matt
          what is the opposite of stole? It’s give and no First Nations sentient being ever willingly gave a nugget of land to the white man invaders that wasn’t subsequently taken by force of arms. Just because we were taught revisionist history as written by the murdering white man does not obviate the simple fact that WE stole the land. It does NOT belong to us and every dime ever earned from it should be returned to it’s rightful owners preferably from Kevin O’Learys ass. In a few years from now when climate change returns us all to the hard scrabble lives of our own ancestors it will be interesting to watch the land return to the only ones capable of respecting it.

          we’ll soon be shaking our fist / on a sinking ship
          as we disappear into the mist / and we won’t be missed
          cause the sun will burn and then kiss /every place we did exist
          and grass will grow and water flow
          and fill every hole we dug down below

    • VC says:

      I think it is you, Matt, that needs “some serious, honest self evaluation” because you are pretty fucking ignorant when it comes to Aboriginal issues.

      First of all, it makes no difference and matters even less why Aboriginal women “feel they need to leave where they were” (which I presume you are implying the reserve). If they felt the need to go grocery shopping or go on vacation or visit a friend, they can enjoy the freedom of mobility in Canada. More germane, they should be afforded the right to the security of person that all Canadians enjoy: if Aboriginal women feel some need to leave where they were (as you put it), they shouldn’t be abducted or murdered and we shouldn’t draw some causal relationship. We don’t kill Indians just because they are ‘off the reservation.’

      Second, yes, Aboriginal territories were stolen; hence the creation and ongoing land claims process.

      I say all this as a FN individual and father of 2 Aboriginal daughters (they are both FN and Inuit). I hope they never have their freedoms challenged on such racist attitudes assumptions, yet I recognize that there are assholes like you out there that take issue with their existence.

      When my 18 year-old niece leaves our reserve next Saturday to begin university in Ottawa, I’ll hope no one questions her preferences and the choices she has made. I’m sure assholes like Matt would scrutinize why she “feels the need to leave from where she is,” but I hope she overcomes this additional racist obstacle.

  4. Bobby says:

    Ms. Wynne is looking to play politics with as many issues as she can. I see through that and as some others here suggest the problem is much bigger than an inquiry. It also believe it could be a diversion from the issue of the opening of the books First Nations have to now present.

  5. davie says:

    As Joe and Matt, above, have shown, there are various individual opinions as to what is the cause, and what the remedy might be. On other comment boards regarding this issue, there are many individual opinions and speculations about what has been happening. (My own contribution would be that we might look at the murdered and missing women in the maquiladora area on the USA/Mexican border for at least some answers.)

    However, not too many individual opinions get turned into remedies.

    What a public enquiry would do is give some organized ‘gathering together’ of what information is available, including opinions of individuals, and a public enquiry’s recommendations would have a bit more weight on levels of governance, from federal to band office.
    Surely we can do more than just bandy opinions while these crimes go on.

    • davidray says:

      the cause is not an opinion but an emotion.

      Humiliation.

      WE stomped on their pride
      WE skinned the buffalo alive
      WE murdered his bride
      then stole the scraps from his table

      you only have to watch any episode of “Game of Thrones” to get an approximation of the attitudes the white invaders brought with them to this hemisphere but not to worry Nature will soon sort us all out and return all to those who respected her. Don’t know what she’ll do all the crap we’ll leave behind but I don’t think she’ll be stopping for any selfies.

    • davie says:

      I’ll add a bit to argue for the public inquiry.

      I personally knew two women who simply disappeared, both on spring evenings in a northern city, in broad daylight, walking from one house to another in their neighbourhoods. One was in her late 20’s, the other in her early 40’s. It is not just run away teens this is happening to.
      I also knew teens, also Aboriginal, who either disappeared, or were murdered.

      There are various opinions both above my comment, and after, as to ’cause.’

      The cops can look after the criminal investigations and references to the courts.

      But a public inquiry could investigate, and report publically on cause, whether one cause, or a number of causes.
      A public inquiry can make recommendations about public policy for all our levels of government.
      Hopefully, the rest of us would hold our governments accountable for considering and putting into action.

      The alternative is to leave it as is, with cops investigating each individual crime, and no change in overall patterns.
      Another alternative is to leave it up to a bunch of party appointees in the Prime Minister’s Office (no matter who the prime minister is) working in camera.

  6. Warren says:

    Thanks my friend

  7. Danny Aldham says:

    Canada is one of the richest, most affluent & beautiful countries in the world. We have so much to be proud of. But we have a few of things to be ashamed of. Two that bother me the most are our treatment of people with mental illnesses, and our relationship with our native Aboriginal communities.
    To drive through the downtown east side of Vancouver is to be ashamed that both of these issues are so painfully obvious and not being addressed.
    On the Aboriginal issues, we need to recognize this is a huge problem with no simple solutions. Throwing more money at a system that does not work is not a solution. I think a good first step is to address education. (But really, if everyone in Attiwapiskat had a PHD would it still not be an economic basket case?)
    The current government proposed a decent first step of passing education to local bands. It was agreed to by AFN Shawn Atleo, but then discarded after pressure by Pam Palmater and the people looking for a perfect solution, and more money. It was a classic case of letting the perfect kill the good.
    This is a really hard problem, made harder by the threat of being called a racist by anyone that even discusses the issues.
    How we move forward is just as tough. Where to start?
    But do we really expect that a Public Inquiry or a Royal Commission will solve anything? We had one on the West Coast after the Robert Pickton case and I don’t see anything that came from that.

    • davidray says:

      The Aboriginal issue! Who the fuck says that. It’s not an issue. Of course we are wealthy because we stole everything.

      Short lesson.

      Where is wealth generated.

      it’s pulled from the ocean
      it’s dug from the ground
      it’s cut down
      it’s grown on a farm.

      that’s five percent of the population.

      so what are the rest of us doing? Stealing and then shuffling the records we write to document the thievery. It’s what we do. It’s all we do. No city can sustain itself so resources have to be moved from rural to urban. If those who generate wealth refuse then it’s taken from them by force.
      and that is the real issue.

  8. sezme says:

    Thanks for sharing your song. A little more beauty in this world can only help.

  9. Sharon Quinn says:

    The brutal truth is that aboriginal-on-aboriginal violence is likely the cause of Tina’s death. It’s likely she was killed by somebody she knew in the Winnipeg aboriginal community…. just as most murders of white girls is by somebody white they knew.

    The police treat such murder investigations equally and the higher death rate amongst aboriginals can be traced to prostitution and drugs. That’s something nobody wants to talk about because it’s considered “racist”. Aboriginal girls like Tina living on their own are ripe for exploitation and abuse.

    If you haven’t lived in Winnipeg and lived with this abysmal situation, you and Wynne shouldn’t pontificate politically about it…. over the corpses of missing and murdered aboriginal girls who fled the reserves to live in an urban hell at the hands of those who exploit them.

    Why do I suspect that Warren will not post my comments for political reasons?!

    • Jon Adams says:

      “That’s something nobody wants to talk about because it’s considered “racist”. ”

      Uh. No. That’s not considered “racist.” That’s considered “blaming the victim.”

  10. Sharon Quinn says:

    The brutal truth is that aboriginal-on-aboriginal violence is likely the cause of Tina’s death. It’s likely she was killed by somebody she knew in the Winnipeg aboriginal community…. just as most murders of white girls is by somebody they knew. The police treat such murder investigations equally and the higher death rate amongst aboriginals can be traced to prostitution and drugs. That’s something nobody wants to talk about because it’s considered “racist”.

    If you haven’t lived in Winnipeg and lived with this abysmal situation, you and Wynne shouldn’t pontificate politically about it…. over the corpses of missing and murdered aboriginal girls who fled the reserves to live in an urban hell at the hands of those who exploit them.

    Why do I suspect that Warren will not post my comments for political reasons?!

  11. The Doctor says:

    My problem with a lot of the dialogue on this issue of an inquiry goes to what the proponents of such an inquiry HONESTLY think it would achieve:

    1. It will miraculously dig up new facts and new theories about this problem that nobody else has ever imagined, and we’ll have miraculous new insight into this issue as a result.

    OR

    2. It will serve essentially as a PR platform and bully pulpit for various people (especially First nations activists) who want to make First Nations issues top of mind to the greatest extent possible.

    Personally, I think alternative #1 is a pipe dream, and it’s alternative #2 that’s really driving the thinking and motivation behind a lot of people who are pushing for a big-ass public inquiry here. I guess if this is, in your opinion, such an important issue that it doesn’t matter how efficiently taxpayers’ money is spent in furtherance of getting as much light as possible shone on this issue, then I suppose it make sense. Part of my problem with that approach is I just find so many public inquiries so damn wasteful. The prime direct beneficiaries are these squadrons upon squadrons of laywers who are either hired directly by the inquiry or by the innumerable interested parties. Go check out the cost of some of these public inquiries held in the past (e.g., Dubin Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples etc.). Isn’t there some more rational, efficient way to achieve this goal?

  12. Christain says:

    Aboriginal women living on the margins die because life is dangerous on the margins. It is dangerous for everybody. We cant have an RCMP surveilance operation up and down the highway of tears because they’ll call that racial profiling. Justin and Kathleen are dining out on an easy to score points on issue and some FN and progressive types are being had. Meanwhile they support policies that help see the 1% hoard wealth at the expense of the poor and marginalized which creates the conditions for their victimization. What a fucked up shell game it all is and as usual many FN people are the rubes. Along with the dimwitted media believer asses who vote Liberal and Conservative as the wind (Wynne) blows.

  13. Other Hockey Dad says:

    Dear davidray – I’ve never stolen anything from anybody. Shut your trap and stop accusing me of crimes I didn’t commit. If you feel oh so guilty about your crimes feel free to wander into the nearest cop shop and confess your theft. But I’m not your accomplice – you speak for you.

    • John says:

      I think David Ray should change his name to Madigan. Cause there he is , mad again.
      Dave, lighten up a bit, we don’t want you to have a jammer. This is generally a bit more civil site. Try to tell us what you suggest is a solution. Without frothing at the mouth.

    • davidray says:

      Shut my trap Hockey Dad.. that’s very Bertuzzi of you. Must be fun in your house. In the meatime of course you’re a thief. Everything you’ve ever owned, do own or ever will own is because someone stole it and let you suckle on the leftovers. Oh, and as Warren sometimes says to those who comment anonymously.. go fuck yourself and that goes for John boy below.

      • Other Hockey Dad says:

        Thanks for retracting your accusation that I’m a thief – “because someone stole it”. Clearly not me, but another “someone” out there. Appreciate that you saw your error.

        • Kaspar Juul says:

          If you’re getting that upset either you’re guilty as sin or you need help

          • Brine says:

            How about this then… aboriginals were conquered by the Europeans, just as one aboriginal group would previously conquer another aboriginal group. As such, the land was no more ‘stolen’ by the Europeans than it was by the previous conquering group.

          • Kaspar Juul says:

            How about that… an unquantified statement attempting to rationalize 19th century colonialization and subsequent treatment of first nations by a sockpuppet.

            How about that.

          • Brine says:

            The Europeans could have wiped them all out, like the vanquishing tribes did to the tribes they defeated. Instead, they sat down with the vanquished and made treaties with them. Doesn’t sound like theft to me.

          • Kaspar Juul says:

            “Doesn’t sound like theft to me”

            No it sounds like quite the fairy tale you’re spinning Brine.

      • Matt says:

        So I assume you signed over the deed to your house and land to the nearest native band? Your employer direct deposits your paycheque into the bands bank account?

        • davie says:

          Little over three decades ago and I was standing in the downtown park in my little city to watch a protest parade roll by. The parade was all farm vehicles, protesting lack of provincial government support for farming, especially grain farming.
          I was standing beside an Aboriginal man, a fellow I knew only slightly.
          As the parade slowly, slowly rolled by, I heard him say, “Are they afraid someone is going to take their land?”
          I glanced at him, and I am sure he was holding back his smile…a rueful smile…but a smile.

          Within the past year I noticed the kerfuffle in reaction to kids in Saskatchewan, first Aboriginal, then others, wearing a tee shirt that said, “Got land? Thank an Indian.”

          It drives some people nuts when anyone suggests that the development of concepts of land ownership has a history.

  14. david ray says:

    For Matt and Brine

    Words fail re your last comments so why not let someone respond who said it so much better.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs

    • david ray says:

      OPEN CHALLENGE TO MATT AND BRINE AND OTHER HOCKEY DAD AND OTHER SINGLE NAME ANONYMOUS POSTERS IF WARREN ALLOWS THIS POST TO STAND.

      Especially Brine who thinks conquering Europeans were kind enough to offer treaties to the few Natives they did not kill.

      How about the next time Warren gives one of his impromptu SFH concerts we offer you the opportunity to publicly pontificate, elaborate and extemporize your views re conquering and vanquishing European colonialists to whoever is assembled. If you agree then I will invite representatives from Idle no More, Akwasasne and Attawapiskat and a few Natives from here in Kingston. Furthermore please post your real name first and last in your next post so I can advise you at to when such an event will occur. My name is David Ray and you can reach me at Davidray.ca@gmail.com to make arrangements assuming Warren concurs. I also think we could turn this into a terrific fundraising event with good food, t-shirts and merry making for all assembled.

  15. david ray says:

    ADDENDUM

    To Brine. Especially Brine.

    I’ve taken the liberty of copying your last two posts as shown below and saving them offline. I think I’ll have them printed at Staples and blown up into posters. Do you think 20 X 24 would be the right size or would 30 X 36 be a tad too much for public display when you get your chance to speak. I bet we could sell a bunch of them.

    “The Europeans could have wiped them all out, like the vanquishing tribes did to the tribes they defeated. Instead, they sat down with the vanquished and made treaties with them. Doesn’t sound like theft to me.” “How about this then… aboriginals were conquered by the Europeans, just as one aboriginal group would previously conquer another aboriginal group. As such, the land was no more ‘stolen’ by the Europeans than it was by the previous conquering group.”
    –Posted by Brine no last name at Warrenkinsella.com aka not a blog 🙂

    • TrueNorthist says:

      One thing you can take to heart my friend, is that his views are increasingly in the minority. I feel your frustration at the slow pace of change but be aware, things are changing. Some will never shed their prejudices, but their time is steadily slipping by and their influence is almost spent. Do not let yourself be drawn into their ever shrinking circle of anger and pain.

    • Brine says:

      Oh sorry, not politically correct enough to appease your white liberal guilt?

      Ok, here’s another little secret: they’re not really nations, despite what people like you and Pam Palmater might think. Now, go and blow another gasket.

  16. Other Hockey Dad says:

    Thanks for the invitation, but I’m good. You already said “someone else” stole stuff from the aboriginals BEFORE I WAS BORN (can you understand the chronology here???) so I’m good with your earlier retraction. I do know that in my lifetime copious amounts of dollars called taxes have been forcibly taken (stolen?) from me and sent to the first nations in a futile attempt to redress the past wrongs you speak of. But I seem to be continuously paying for the sins of my forefathers. Can you offer a timeline when I might be off the hook for that? Can you suggest an amount that might balance the scorecard? Or do you need to haul me up on some stage, shout at me, and beat me up for your score to be settled?

    Anyways, I will say, I feel kind of bullyed by your last two posts….you might want to think that “offer” through a bit. You should also re-read what I’ve written. I’ve said nothing about European encounters with First Nations. I merely objected to you suggesting that WE are all thieves of some kind and I’m not willing to wear that white man’s guilt BS.

    • Kaspar Juul says:

      Moral outrage and a claim of being bullied. You’re a cornucopia of conbot chestnuts.

      The blowing a gasket part is pretty funny considering you demanded a personal retraction. I’d love to see you attempt to sue for defamation on that one. Just reading that you are suing because of “something the Europeans did.” I don’t think I’ve ever read a more ridiculous reaction.

  17. Brine says:

    By the way, no less than progressive luminary Andrew Coyne thinks a public inquiry would be a waste of time:
    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/08/25/andrew-coyne-problems-behind-aboriginal-murders-wont-be-solved-with-a-public-inquiry/

    A whole lot of being seen to be doing something to make assuage ‘progressives’ guilt, kind of like Alan Rock and the gun registry.

  18. que sera sera says:

    People like Matt, Joe, OHD, Brine appear unaware that their gratuitous ugliness and ignorance about a specific segment of Canadian society reveals not only their feelings of guilt & worthlessness, but also the obvious fact that they are threatened & terrified of members of that specific minority group.

    More intellectual pygmies cowering under their metaphorical beds making scary internet noises hoping the monsters go away. Good grief.

    Sadly it is often fearful, threatened, angry, irrational men found guilty of ritually slaughtering innocent women from the very group that terrifies them.

    No wonder they & their brethren are so against a public inquiry on MMIW.

    • Other Hockey Dad says:

      Now I’m not only a thief, but I partake in ritual slaughter too. Superb debate tactic. I’m done with morons here who can’t read or parse the very focused debate points in my posts. Lots of instructive material here I’ll review with my teenagers as to how progressives will twist and spin to try to force guilt onto them for things they had no hand in, just because they live in the suburbs and have white skin.

      • Kaspar Juul says:

        You are a sensitive diva

      • TrueNorthist says:

        Boy you sure can dish it out, but you also sure as hell can’t take it. You call your viceral outbursts “very focused debate ponts”? Really? Buddy, you need to step away for a bit and cool off.

  19. david ray says:

    As a practicing moron I take no offense. No harm no foul but the offer stands.

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