11.13.2015 07:06 PM

From my teenaged son 

Seems about right. 

  

34 Comments

  1. SG says:

    Your son sounds like a very bright kid, but with due respect to him and you, the welfare of Muslims is not what should concern us at this point in time.

    • Ridiculosity says:

      Read Warren’s son’s comment again. Slowly. This time not moving your lips or your finger.

    • ottlib says:

      On the contrary, this is exactly the time when we should be concerned about the welfare of Muslims. Such attacks as these always cause a backlash against those Muslims who had nothing to do with the violence and who just want what you and I want, namely, to be able live and raise our children in peace and security and realize a little prosperity along the way. These people are our natural allies against the extremists and should be treated as such, not condemned for the actions of people who invoke their religion to justify their violent actions.

      It has been said before but just because the extremists invoke Islam to justify their violence does not make them part of the Islamic mainstream. In fact they are way outside of that mainstream. They are as far outside of the Islamic mainstream as the Westboro Baptist Church is outside of the Christian mainstream or as far outside of the Islamic mainstream as that christian pastor in the US who invoked God and Christ to justify his call for all LGBT people to be put to death is outside of the Christian mainstream.

      ISIS and its ilk are not just terrorist groups, they are a physical manifestation of an idea, a monstrous and evil idea, but an idea all the same. Hateful and violent ideas (ideologies) cannot be destroyed they can only be discredited and pushed to the margins. Since we are unable to pay the price it took to defeat Nazi-ism we are going to have to defeat the ideology of ISIS the same way we defeated Communism, with time, patience, hard work and the relentless pursuit of our values regardless of the provocations from the other side. And we are going to have to make certain that we accept all who share those values as part of that battle regardless of skin colour, political affiliation, creed or religion.

      • SG says:

        I cannot recall any mass intimidation or Muslim citizens, very little offensive graffiti, and certainly no violence.

        For this reason I don’t see why every time an atrocity is committed by an extremist Muslim group, the Left falls over itself to lecture us not to paint all Muslims with the same brush and to restrain ourselves from lashing out. Yet who ever does that? They are lecturing their fellow citizens over imagined assaults or intimidation on Muslims that never seem to actually occur.

        Muslims are safe in Canada. They are safe in France. They are safe in more or less every Western country. The same cannot be said for Jews, by the way.

  2. Kevin says:

    Didn’t take long for someone to say this has nothing to do with Islam while the shooters should Allah Akbar.

    • DougM says:

      Thing is, saying Islam or Muslim is like saying Christianity or Christian. We all recognize there are a wide variety of Christian faiths from Baptists to Catholics to Anglicans to evangelicals. Then there are the fringes, whackos and extremists. All “Christian”. Islam is no different. Most of us in the West just don’t know or talk much about the names of these different Muslim faiths.

  3. Christian Giles says:

    Wise words. Reminds me of what the Doctor said last Saturday.

  4. Christian Giles says:

    Here’s the full transcript of the Doctor’s speech. Very powerful. Very timely. So true. Stay brave, stay safe Paris.

    https://m.reddit.com/r/doctorwho/comments/3s1cx5/the_zygon_inversion_a_transcript_of_the_doctors/.

  5. Ronald O'Dowd says:

    Warren,

    Your son is like his Dad — a fair-minded Canadian. You both make us proud.

  6. JH says:

    All well and good and the proper response from young Mr. Kinsella. But if the new government continues with the plan to bring 25,000 refugees in before the end of the year, imhop then they will have a huge problem with the majority of Canadians and the goodwill they’ve enjoyed so far.

  7. Steve T says:

    While I agree this should not reflect poorly on all Muslims (obviously), I also think the Islamic leaders (as in globally) could be doing more to publicly condemn anyone and any group who commits these atrocious acts in the name of Islam. And I mean serious condemnation – not just defending Islam. I mean “you are going to burn in Hell for these acts” sort of words, or “Anyone who commits these acts, or speaks in favour of them, has no place in any mosque anywhere in the world.”.

    And if the majority of global Islamic leaders are saying these things, then shame on the media for not covering it better.

    • Maps Onburt says:

      Right on. Why is the first concern for the Muslim,religion when they aren’t speaking out and telling these sociopaths they aren’t going to paradise for acts like this? Why aren’t they making pariahs out of them and educating the other one billion peaceful Muslims that this is cowardly and twisting Islam? Why is it that within seconds of any terrorist attack progressives feel the need to emphasize its either not Islamic terrorism or that we feel the rest of the Muslims are not terrorists? Within a matter of hours, we’ll see “justification” why they did it even if was “misguided” or too extreme. It’ll be because we are fighting ISIS, or Sadam, or the Taliban or because we recognize Israel or some other perceived egregious behaviour on our part and only if we didn’t do that, these 100 people would still be alive.

      As long as Islam doesn’t “fix” the sections of the Quran that incite and condone this behaviour (which is impossible to do since changing Mohammed’s words is punishable by death according to the Quran, we’ll have this continue. Islamic scholars and Immams have to fix this. It isn’t something the west can do.

      In the meantime, we’ll continue to watch Islamic terrorists kill in the name of Mohammed and the Muslim religions and we’re supposed to continue to believe it’s a religion of peace. I do believe that most of the more than a billion Muslims don’t want anything to do with terrorism and aren’t actively supporting it but they also aren’t going out of their way to stop it either. No religion is perfect and neither is atheism which I practice but it’s past time that the Muslims of the world stopped the perversion of their religion for what ever reason – just like the Christians had to do after the Crusades.

    • Al in Cranbrook says:

      Over the last several years I have seen numerous poll results from both Europe and N. America that state something between 10% and 20% of Muslims are sympathetic to Al Qaida and/or ISIS…which is polite way of saying they are on the side of the terrorists.

      10% of how many millions? Slice it any way you want, that’s a lot of supporters.

      • ottlib says:

        Right, and a large percentage of Christians in the US sympathize with the yahoos that kill doctors that perform abortions. As do a large number of so called clergy.

        Do they represent the views of all Christian?

        Should those Christian leaders who do not sympathize with them speak out more?

        Interestingly, they do they just do not take to the airways to make grand gestures and speeches. They do it one mind at a time, through their weekly teachings in their place of worship, through one-on-one counselling and through listening to the worries and concerns of their flock.

  8. Enough says:

    Warren, you and people like you are guilty of allowing this to happen. Be careful.. as soon as the economy slides, pitchforks and torches will be out for people like you who allowed the situation to get to this.

    Not just islamic terrorism but black gang violence, india phone scams, crime and intimidation, racial/gender quotas, temp foreign workers, safe spaces and so much more.

    I don’t think you truly understand the rage the average person feels at what the world has come to!!!

    Keep apologizing for the enemy… nobody is listening anymore.

    You share the blame of this happening. Not that you care in your “safe space”. Delete my comment like I expect you to traitor.

    • smelter rat says:

      Hoo boy.

    • Steve T says:

      Warren, I commend you for allowing this trash by “Enough” to be posted, for all to see. It is, of course, this sort of comment that makes it difficult for those who have any critical words to be taken seriously, lest we be lumped in together.

      As I’m sure you are aware, this person does not actually express what the “average person” is feeling. I’m not sure if my comments regarding Muslim leaders (above) are either, but I’m hoping that civil discourse will prevail over conspiracy theories and xenophobia.

    • Warren says:

      You have had your say. If you come back, your true identity will be revealed – to your community and employer, too.

      You are a cowardly, hateful piece of human garbage.

    • littlemissbliss says:

      wow. buckle your seatbelts and raise your seat trays folks cause i think we’re in for a bumpy ride.

  9. PJ says:

    Thank you for your son’s very thoughtful and intelligent comments. It is truly disheartening to read the backlash against Islam and the plan to give asylum to 25,000 Syrian refugees.
    Canada is better than that.
    Everyone is an immigrant or refugee in Canada or the descendant of immigrants or refugees who came to Canada for a better life. I dare say every new ethnic group that arrived in Canada had to overcome bigotry and intolerance, but to borrow a phrase from our Prime Minister: It’s 2015…(not 1915.) We can do better.

    • CanadianKate says:

      You are right, it is not 1915. Those who declare war on us don’t line up their armies and march on our allies, drawing us into battle. Instead, they wage war in less traditional ways, no uniforms, no obvious military infrastructure, no political homeland. Now they hide in a terrorized crowd, who keep silent fearing for their lives. They put their rocket launchers in schools and hospitals, they use human shields at every possibility and their target is not other military fighters but the general public.

      The rules of ‘war’ have changed so that is unrecognizable to those from 1915. We no longer share values with our enemy. Even Obama in his response said, “This is an attack not just on Paris, it’s an attack not just on the people of France, but this is an attack on all of humanity and the universal values that we share.” Although, I’d argue the problem is these are not universal values and our enemy is no longer identified by ethnic group, or nationality, but by values, something much easier to hide.

      As long as they were fighting among themselves, there was little we could do. But once a beach-head was established within Iraq/Syria (as well as other areas of the Middle East in the case of different terrorists), they were ready to expand because they had won for themselves a geographic base as well as a philosophical base. Now they are expanding, using the methods that have worked so well for them, hiding in the crowd, terrorizing the innocents to keep them hidden and moving on to attack broader targets. Three different major attacks outside of Syria/Iraq in the past 2 weeks.

      So, how do we help those trapped? My heart agrees we must support those who have given up any hope of living in their homeland and are ready to leave it all behind and come here. These are the people who share our values for life and peace.

      But we must also do so with extreme caution. The mental control these terrorists have exerted on those who simply want to live their lives, will not be broken when one leaves a refugee camp. In our past, refugees did not leave their prejudice and hatred behind when they landed here. The Mafia didn’t stay in Italy, nor the Hong Kong Triads or other gangs were imported when immigrants/refugees come to Canada (or farther back the tensions between Irish Catholics and English Protestants.) It is one thing to import those intent on crime and illicit profit. With our new ‘enemy’, domination and our destruction is the goal.

      So we help but with caution. Not with rush and deadlines, but with support. One thing that shines in the Canadian system is the use of sponsorship groups to support those who are arriving. It gives newcomers a taste of what Canadian values are and a support group and community right from the start. The system works and works well, but cannot be rushed to fulfill an election promise. Those of us who want to be part of sponsorship groups do not want to be importing trouble, we want our government to screen the refugees carefully so we can be assured we are bringing in those who value human life as we do. And we don’t want numbers, there should be no limit on the pipe, as long as there are Canadians willing to step forward as sponsors, there should be families brought into Canada.

      If Trudeau can facilitate that, then, on the refugee front he will have delivered his promise. But Canadians also want to see something done to help those we can’t bring over as refugees. Obviously opening borders has not worked in Europe so we need another response. Refugee camps aren’t the answer so what is left? Do we just leave them to fight among themselves until a victor emerges? Do we go with the Russian method of suppression? I don’t care to answer those questions although Trudeau himself has admitted to being envious of how quickly China can deal with problems by enforcing change.

      I was noting Trudeau’s hair during his speech last night and wondering how long it will be before we see a significant amount of grey. He has taken power during a very turbulent time of world history. Will he rise to the occasion or become Canada’s Chamberlain?

      • Maps Onburt says:

        Wow, great post Kate. Very thoughtful and measured. You raise lots of very good questions. I hope that our government (and opposition) have good answers for them.

  10. ian turnbull says:

    I actually believe it would be difficult to find one non-prejudiced Canadian who wouldn’t accept 25000 legitamate refugees (however how many would actually sponsor them is another story). The issue isn’t about accepting refugees. The issue is people’s confidence level that the government can ensure that none of those refugees are actually members of ISIS or any other terrorist organization looking for access. It looks like somewhere between 8 and 10 people were responsible for the Paris attacks. That is .04% of 25000. Take as many refugees as we can handle but do it in a responsible manner. Do not rush the process in order to live up to a campaign promise which was only thrown out there to take advantage of a horrific picture of a dead child washed up on a beach.

    • ottawacon says:

      Unfortunately for a lot of people simply trying to find a way to live a decent life somewhere in the world, French news is now reporting that one of the attackers was carrying a Syrian passport that passed through Greece as a refugee in October. Still remains to be confirmed that the bearer in November was the bearer in October, but if that last step cannot be conclusively proven not to be the case, the issue of expediting the entry of 25,000 refugees to Canada by essentially dropping any background checks becomes rather problematic, particularly from a government whose stance on ISIS seems even more questionable now than it did a week ago.

  11. Ted H says:

    Your son is wise, thoughtful and charitable. More so it seems than the majority of those commenting on his words. This should not affect the plan to bring in refugees.

  12. Brent Crofts says:

    I think Trudeau needs to reconsider his decision and I don’t believe any reasonable person would blame him for doing so.

  13. Derek Pearce says:

    Along the same lines, I posted this on Fbook this morn:

    You know, a small number of Irish terrorists pursued a vain goal for decades (that they never accomplished)– they killed thousands of innocent people. They thought the ends justified the means and didn’t care about collateral damage. Did we decide all Irish were suspicious? Did we decide to stop immigration from Ireland during this time? Did we spread false stories about Irish people trying to get special treatment? No– we condemned the terrorists as the murderers they were and let the wider Irish immigrant public live in peace.

    ***

    (Incidentally [or not I suppose], I said this as a child of an Irish immigrant, it’s why the analogy occurred to me– actually it first occurred based on the way the Irish were treated here in the 1800s–filthy Papists and all that– but then how they were *not* treated in 2nd half of 20th C.)

  14. ottlib says:

    Your son is a wise man.

  15. I appreciate the sentiment of Young Kinsella, but such statements are not helpful. His heart is in the right place (why can’t we all get along?). But the fact is – these acts were committed by Muslims. And they are a direct result of a particular interpretation of Islam. Not all holy books are the same. Not all religion is good. It is okay to criticize religion (as it is any other ideology / set of ideas), and Islamaphobia is meant to stifle the conservation. No decent human being supports or condones bigotry against any people. But saying, for example, “I don’t believe the Koran encapsulates the best ethics for 21st century living” is not racist, and it’s not hateful. Same with “I believe thinking a book was dictated by some Supreme Being is a bad idea”. People need to get used to their religious beliefs being more closely scrutinized and challenged.

    In times like this, I don’t stand by an ancient religion. I stand by the people of a secular democratic ally, France, who was heinously attacked on their homeland.

  16. Cory says:

    He’s well-meaning but I disagree. We may not want to see these people as Muslims but they sure as heck do. They even go out of their way to include “Islam” in their name.

    To deny that they are Islamic, granted a radical extremist version of Islam, is to ignore their motivation, thought process and strategy. It is very difficult to solve a situation like this when we refuse to accept reality.

  17. Jason says:

    Didnt know the “I” in I.S.I.S. stood for Irish…. Thanks Kid.

    Dress up like a Rabbi and visit a Mosque. Tell me how that works out for you.

  18. William Conrad says:

    A mosque was torched in Peterborough, ON….. and it is called a “hate crime” in the media which assumes it was a non-muslim who perpetrated the arson.

    Perhaps it was done by an ISIS sympathizer in Peterborough who knew it would create an outrage against Canadian white men by accusatory women and media.

    What does Occam’s Razor logic tell us ….?

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