, 03.29.2019 03:55 PM

“He is going to get this done one way or another.”

Here’s the audio.

And here are her documents.


  1. the real Sean says:

    Liberal Party card holders need to start a twitter / facebook page or something to pressure JT to move on already.

  2. Derrick says:

    She could not have been more clear. But the status of Ms. Wilson-Reybould in relation to the LSO is not clear to me (she was called under the Barrister’s Act), but the rules governing lawyers in Ontario (similar to elsewhere in Canada) provide:

    7.2-3 A lawyer shall not use any device to record a conversation between the lawyer and a client or another legal practitioner, even if lawful, without first informing the other person of the intention to do so.

    Is the Privy Council her client?

    • Derrick,

      That’s just what we’ll need: digging up another venerable and retired SCOC justice to render another without-a-doubt-bang-on-legal opinion…

      Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    • whyshouldIsellyourwheat says:

      When JWR is acting as the Attorney General, she has no clients. When she is acting as the Justice Minister, she does.

      She was acting as the Attorney General, the chief law enforcement officer in the country.

      I am not a lawyer.

    • WestGuy says:

      She can just say that she experienced that particular clause differently than other people did.

    • Canadiankate says:

      No. He is not a member of the government. So the AG is not her lawyer.

      JWR has been consulting with lawyers all along (but not Warren – we all know she hasn’t been consulting with Warren!) and I’m pretty sure one of them would have told her what she did was against the Barrister’s Act if what you are asking is true.

      While I agree Wernick is at a disadvantage in this exchange because she could word things to enhance and/or protect her own reputation, I believe she did this only after repeated similar conversations.

      So much for the PM’s assertion that sometimes people misconstrue what they are hearing and this was the case here.

      • Karl-Milton-Marx-Friedman says:

        I took a 3 week pause on this scandal. here’s what’s changed

        – I’m no longer convinced that this whole scandal would have been avoided if JWR had horse traded SNC for elements of her agenda at Justice. JWR made the tough non-politician decision but didn’t resign because then she’d harm Trudeau. Politics at the c-suite is mostly horse trading exercises as we all are familiar on the inside circuit.

        – I’m now MORE SO inclined to believe that the demotion was the trigger: JWR was worried about the Saturday Night Massacre (which went over Wernick’s head & mine). She was worried about her reputation since it was an obvious manipulation to support the DPA..,Too embarrassing to her character. She did not want to be a stooge, a trained seal, a loyal cabinet minister.

        – It’s still the case then that this was triggered by JT’s cabinet shuffle, which means Scott Brison is to blame. Okay, I kid, I kid. But it is really unfortunate for the LPC as we need problem solvers more than ever.

    • Derrick says:

      When she’s making the decision she’s AG but when she’s telling JT (or perhaps the Privy Council) that they are stepping over or near the line she’s giving advice. I understood that MOJ sends legal opinions to the Privy Council. Not much turns on it but I expect every lawyer paused on this because lawyers can’t record conversations with clients. I also expect that she took advice before releasing this.

      Makes Wernick’s “I wasn’t wearing a wire” quite funny …

    • Vancouverois says:

      In his testimony before the Justice Committee, Wernick himself said that he did NOT consider her to be under solicitor-client privilege. I don’t see how he could now suddenly reverse himself and claim that she was.

  3. Hugh says:

    Is there anyone in Trudeau’s inner sanctum that understands the concept of the phrase “No means no!”?

    The usual CBC comment trolls are already in full attack mode against her, I wonder how many of them are being directed by the PMO.

    Ah, such “sunny, sunny ways”.

    • Nick says:

      To a narcissist No means Yes.

    • Derek Pearce says:

      Well judging by the arguments I’ve had with several friends on Facebook (and not a one of us, myself included will every vote for the CPC let alone Scheer), I think a lot of people are panicky at the idea of Scheer becoming PM and are doing this of this own volition.

      I’ve made it clear I’m not voting Liberal until Justin is gone. I can park my vote elsewhere for now. This pisses them off because they’d rather I (and millions more) hold my nose and vote Liberal anyway.

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:


        Here we go: you untold legions of people planning to vote Liberal anyway, please post a comment below Derek’s.

        I’ll be counting!

      • Pat says:

        You voted for a lucky sperm but are panicky about Scheer?

        • Derek Pearce says:

          The lucky sperm is a phony who I’ve come to despise but he doesn’t dog-whistle to racists and he doesn’t want to give tax credits so rich religious people can save $$ putting their kids in private religious schools. Policy does matter.
          As I said, I ain’t voting for Trudeau but at times the comment section here does become an echo chamber as bad as anywhere else.

          • Fred from BC says:

            “The lucky sperm is a phony who I’ve come to despise but he doesn’t dog-whistle to racists ”

            Yeah, he does. Just to a different bunch of racists.

            “he doesn’t want to give tax credits so rich religious people can save $$ putting their kids in private religious schools.”

            And, of course, non-rich people as well. Plenty of people are disgusted by the current educational system and what it does (and does not) teach our children.

          • Pedant says:

            Catholics in most of Canada get their religious education publicly funded. As long as other faith groups have to pay out of pocket, tax credits are a viable solution to this inequity.

            So-called “dog whistling” is a non-argument. You are pretending to be able to read people’s minds to deduce what they REALLY mean.

          • Derek Pearce says:

            I rest my case letting both of your replies speak for themselves. And this is why people still want to believe in Justin and make excuses for him, so the likes of you don’t get your way policy-wise. I want to see the looks on your faces when the shitty dauphin get’s a minority govt supported by the ndp this fall.

          • Vancouverois says:

            …isn’t education a provincial matter? As in, aren’t any tax credits for private schooling decided by the provincial governments rather than the federal one?

            Is there some new federal Conservative policy that I missed here?

  4. Steve T says:

    I went to the CTV website and listened to the whole conversation. Wow. Just wow.

    This will be a watershed moment in Canadian politics, I imagine. To summarize the developments over the past 24 hours:

    1. Various folks previously tried to suggest that JWR misunderstood “normal” conversations as political pressure. This recording completely destroys that narrative. Ergo, the PM, Wernick, and Butts are blatant liars.

    2. The CEO of SNC tried to suggest that the company never advised the government that 9000 jobs were at risk, if the DPA wasn’t pursued. The email revealed yesterday destroys that narrative. Ergo, SNC and its CEO are blatant liars.

    I’m not sure this government, under JT’s leadership, will make it to the election in the fall. I suspect the polling numbers will have them in 3rd place in a hurry.

  5. Max says:

    Wernick to JWR: “you have sooo much to offer”. Thinly veiled threat – you will be fired, demoted or shuffled. Every Cabinet Minister hearing that from the Chief of the Privy Council and the Prime Minister’s Deputy would know EXACTLY what those words meant. But hey, it is possible 2 people can perceive and experience and interpret and internalize pressure differently. Anyway, what really is pressure. How can one measure and quantify pressure?

    • Gord Tulk says:

      From the very outset and throughout the conversation JWR told Wernick that she considered the conversation to be inappropriate, interference, illegal. Yet he pressed on. There is no way he can say he wasn’t aware of how she was receiving his requests/threats. She even used the term “Saturday Night Massacre”.

      And it is incredibly unlikely that JT didn’t order him to make the call and imply the threat of firing.

      Is anyone in cabinet or caucus going to the the Barry Goldwater thing and go to Sussex and tell him he hasn’t there support and must resign? Or are they and the party lemmings?

  6. Max says:

    The Liberal Caucus members need to be vewy vewy caweful (channel your inner Elmer Fudd, if you’re old enough). Chretien would call then Nervous Nellies. Firstly, if the vote to expel Jody and Jane, they potentially have 2 very capable MPs outside the Liberal tent pissing in, whereas, even as bad as things have gotten, they’d be wise if they remain inside the Liberal tent pissing out. Before this plays out, they may need the integrity and gravitas that Jody and Jane have, an it is Justin who goes for a walk in the muck with his Birkenstoks.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:


      Caucus needs to ask themselves this: who refused to testify before Justice and wouldn’t let PMO staffers do it? Who blocked JWR from a return appearance? And finally, who is not advantaged under those dire circumstances if JWR and JP are expelled from caucus?

  7. Jack B says:

    Again this make no sense at all. Why go to all this trouble and legal risk for this company? He could have stroked it a cheque from the treasury for billions of dollars. he could have paid another firm to move to Quebec in its place. Why risk jailtime for votes? There is no reason at all to do this unless something even deeper is being covered up.

    • Gord Tulk says:

      Because many of the laurentian elite go to court and jail if this company goes to trial. And this company is part of the cabal that OWNS the LPC.

    • Craig Chamberlain says:

      Seems so. As bad as this is, I think the other shoe has yet to drop.

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:


        Norman makes this look like a pleasant, relaxing, Sunday stroll in the park.

        • Craig Chamberlain says:

          And yet Ronald my impression is that matter is not very well understood by Canadians.

          The JWR recording is explosive but one bit that perhaps is being skipped past, important for all that it alludes to, runs from about 17:03 to 17:11.

          • Vancouverois says:

            What – the part where JWR says she’s “not under any illusion how the Prime Minister has and gets things that he wants”?

  8. Paul Martin says:

    Time for the Liberal Caucus to expel Trudeau

  9. Sean says:

    I read a tweet from Susan Delacourt to Bob Rae. The two of them are livid re taping a conversation. And my guess is pressure cooker Copps must be on fire with rage.

  10. Gord Tulk says:

    Either JT is doomed or the LPC is. If the party sticks with Justin they will wear it for a decade or more.

  11. Leo Fleming says:

    The heavy sigh that she lets out before picking up the phone is quite telling. “Not more of this shit”.

    • Vancouverois says:

      To be fair, she knew she was recording. So that could be interpreted as theatrics for the benefit of later listeners.

  12. Craig Chamberlain says:

    At what point will the Liberal caucus wake up to where the real problem lies? Will THIS finally prompt it?

    Blindsighted by their own arrogance. They’re done.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:


      A coward dies a thousand times before his death — The Bard.

      A CANADIAN caucus (or cabinet) member, a million times…with very few exceptions. Simply, the nature of the beast.

  13. Lawrence Barry says:

    I have to hope that there are some other Liberal MP’s around that have at least a basic concept of right and wrong and will do the right thing in the coming days – not holding my breath.

  14. Gilbert says:

    How can the prime minister survive this? If he cares about his party, he should resign.

    • Lawrence Barry says:

      Sorry – but fuck his “party” – if he “cares” about his country he should resign.

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:


        Sadly, this Prime Minister greatly over-estimates his party’s turn-around skills…it’s illusion at its best.

        He will never, ever, contemplate much less resign. And they don’t have the balls within my party to at least get him to clean-slate SNC-L and Norman.

        They know in the PMO that if they proactively clean-slate, at this long overdue juncture, that they go down anyway.

  15. Leo Fleming says:

    there’s no question about it. I had thought that Scheer jumped the gun. But not anymore. Trudeau must resign or end in absolute disgrace, mulroney style.

  16. Montrealaise says:

    This morning CBC reported the PMO states that Michael Wernick never informed them of the content of his telephone conversation with JWR. I predict their next statement will be that the PM never instructed Wernick to say what he did or how he said it, and that he did it on his own initiative – in other words, he went rogue. I wonder whether Wernick will meekly accept the role of fall guy.

    • Vancouverois says:

      I don’t know if Wernick will let this slide – he seemed very self-important, and this accusation touches directly on his personal honesty and competence. Not that he can really claim to be honest now that his prevarications at the Justice Committee have been exposed… but I don’t think that will prevent him from defending himself against this particular charge.

      Not that it matters, really. The idea that Wernick didn’t report on the conversation when that’s his whole job – and when in the call he explicitly says “I am going to have to report back” – is ludicrous in the extreme. Nobody is going to believe it. The most extreme Liberal partisans may pretend they do, if they don’t care about looking like dishonest fools – but that won’t actually convince anyone.

    • Walter says:

      The headlines are wrong.
      The actual quote was [the PMO also said it was “unaware of the full contents of this recording before today.”]
      This means that Trudeau may not have been aware of some “ums” and “ahs”, but he was likely aware of (virtually) the entire conversation.

    • Max says:

      Montreal, Wernick already took the fall. You’re about a week and a half behind.

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:


        That depends if you equate falling on your own sword with the involuntary concept of being thrown under the bus.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:


      Wernick apparently is anything but meek and obligingly servile, if you make a foolish mistake and start gunning for him.

      • Vancouverois says:

        To my surprise, it looks like he may be playing ball with the PMO and taking the blame after all! Apparently his lawyer is now saying that he never told Trudeau about the call, because everyone was away for the holidays.

        I don’t see how any of them can expect that to work given that Wernick himself emphasized in front of the Justice Committee that JWR could have contacted the PM at any time – and that the PM’s itinerary for December 20-22 shows several days of “private meetings”, as our host has pointed out on Twitter.

        But hey, we all know by now that we can’t expect a viable PR strategy from these guys… just more colossal gaffes.

  17. Sean says:

    If Canadians wonder why Trudeau doesn’t listen to them, it’s because he doesn’t listen to anybody. People are mere objects and only his needs must be met. Ethics, law, rights of passage, constitutions, etc impede his egocentric goal driven behaviour. We don’t matter to him, because no one matters to him.

  18. Gord Tulk says:

    So is this a modified limited hangout or just a simple limited hangout?


  19. Sean says:

    Prince asked a hypothetical.

    “What,” she asked, “if the opinion comes saying, ‘She can review it, but she shouldn’t,’ or simply, ‘She can’t review it’?”

    “Mr. Butts stated, ‘It wouldn’t say that,’” Prince told JWR.

    Prince remembered this very clearly, JWR said in her written submission to the justice committee, “because this response made her nervous.”

    Christie Blatchford

  20. Lenny says:

    Where on earth is the RCMP in all of this? If JT were Trump there would be investigations coming out all over at all levels .

  21. Tod Cowen says:

    I have a question for the person who made the initial leak to the Globe, tossing the first snowball down the slope, and quite possibly packing on a little bit more as the snowball grew into an avalanche.

    To what end?

    You’ve changed the course of Canadian history. JT was on track to a second term (although maybe in a minority) given such a lackluster opposition. Now he’ll lose. Some PMs might come back from a deficit of this size–JC ran best as an underdog–but not this one. Was that your intent? Is a CPC majority a better outcome? Does it further the goals you entered politics to pursue?

    Making a significant statement about the rule of law, and exposing JT’s contempt for it (“he wants to get this done…) is no small thing.

    Was it enough?

  22. Gord Tulk says:

    Lol lol.

    Biden the plagerizer plagerizes yet again. This time from JT:

    “I may not recall these moments the same way, and I may be surprised at what I hear.”


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