05.01.2020 01:59 PM

Gun control, Liberals and politics: a thread

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27 Comments

  1. Yet Another Calgarian says:

    The Liberals have never controlled the narrative on gun control because most people can understand that the gun problem in Canada is criminals using illegal weapons.

    The announced changes won’t make anyone any safer than the 1996 changes did.

    Certainly didn’t stop either the guy in NS or the guy who just rented a truck and went for a drive down Younge street.

    And it definitely won’t stop the gangs shooting each other on the streets of Toronto. BVut hey it’ll make people feel better right… especially the Liberal urban baase… and that’s better than real solutions to real problems.

  2. This legislation will address prohibited weapons that are already in country. However, it will likely have little effect on guns smuggled through Ports of Entry or via land masses that straddle the Canadian and American side with water in between them.

  3. Steve Teller says:

    Very good observations. Similarly, with the gun registry, it was poor execution of a good idea. I am a gun owner, and quite frankly I didn’t mind registering my guns. It was a pretty seamless process. What I minded was the massive cost overruns, and the decision to give the registration center to New Brunswick. Just reeked of bureaucracy and patronage.

    • The Doctor says:

      . . . bureaucracy and patronage being Liberal Party of Canada specialties.

      And btw I can’t wait for the coronavirus-related waste, fraud and abuse stories to start coming out in a year or two.

      • Ronald O'Dowd says:

        Doc,

        Of course you’re right but this is all about short to medium term vote buying and any incumbent government would do exactly the same. It’s always about staying in power, at any price.

      • Better the reading about all the people who died because they or family members had to work because they didn’t make it through the hoops to get support.

        • The Doctor says:

          Where did I say I was opposed to these programs? I’m not. I’m merely opposed to waste, fraud and abuse.

          • Fred from BC says:

            (forgive him, he’s NDP…higher thought is not their strength..)

            We already have the story of the car dealer (in Ontario?) who had hired two students for the summer, only to have them apply for the student version of CERB and then decide to take the summer off and not work after all. That’s just one. There will be more…

  4. Chris Sigvaldason says:

    Unfortunately, this gun “ban” or “amnesty” is just another stunt that all governments do to project the “appearance of doing something.” We’ve had a handgun ban for close to 90 years in Canada and that hasn’t stopped gang violence and death.
    The Liberals have promised roughly $600-million to buy back these “assault-style” or “assault-looking” rifles, yet they have only promised about $85-million (spread over 5 years) to bolster border and customs operations to prevent smuggling, which might actually accomplish something.

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Chris,

      Those of us close to CBSA know that whether we’re talking guns or drugs that interceptions by them amount to only a drop in the bucket and that will never change, no matter how much money and resources you throw their way.

      • Paige says:

        So… Its hard so we shouldn`t try??

        • Fred from BC says:

          “So… Its hard so we shouldn`t try??”

          No, it’s actually *impossible*, so we shouldn’t waste time and money on something that we already know will not work. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want my tax dollars squandered on useless, symbolic “feel-good” measures that do nothing but promote the political agenda of the Liberal Party (which can be summed up in just two words: get re-elected). I want that money spent on something tangible…something than returns real, measurable results and actually *solves the problem* (as much as possible).

          First thing to do? Bring back ‘carding’.. .IT WORKED.

      • Chris Sigvaldason says:

        I have no doubt you are correct. It will be very difficult and expensive and take longer than the election-cycle to improve things at the border, which is why governments tend not to do anything. I’m with Paige on this. Lets try to do something that will work, not some virtue-signaling big-city vote-getting.

  5. Mark D says:

    Warren, all 10 of your observations resonate concerning mistakes the Liberals made last time. Mistake #4 was particularly prevelant in these parts, flipping some ridings in our region from red to orange after Jack Layton proved much more understanding of Indigenous and rural concerns over the previous gun registry than did his various Liberal counterparts.

    In his interviews with local media in these rural parts with large Indigenous communities, it was clear that Mr. Layton supported the gun registry, but he did so without condescending us locals. He recognized our concerns, and we never felt politically threatened or shamed for disagreeing with him on the issue.

    I recall one federal election in which Liberals lost the riding over the issue. Despite our riding being largely rural, our local Liberal candidate very much took the party’s hardline stance on the issue. This was in contrast to our local NDP candidate.

    It was during hunting season and I was at a local gun range with a couple who were longtime executives with both the federal and the provincial local Liberal riding associations, one of whom was also an elected municipal representative quite popular across the region.

    “The gun registry is going to cost us this election, isn’t it?” she said.

    “At least locally,” he added.

    What I found even more interesting is that our provincial Liberal representative, who was quite popular among both federal Liberals and federal Conservatives, did not endorse the federal Liberal candidate publicly. Or it was a very week “I’m voting for [federal Liberal candidate] but I feel strongly it is up to the individual voter to decide for oneself which candidate best represents him or her.”

    In the end, the Liberals lost. Not just our riding, but most of our region. As for Mr Layton, he took a lot of criticism from his large urban base for engaging rural and Indigenous supporters (including MPs and federal candidates) in open dialogue on the issue, but none of them abandonned him over the issue.

    On the other side, us rurals never saw eye-to-eye with him on the issue, but we respected him for treating us with respect. And we respected for him for trying his best to tackle such a contentious issue and build a consensus that would address everyone’s needs and concerns.

  6. There’s some cognitive dissonance here, a friend of mine noted. Let’s allow that this move makes the streets of Canada safer (it doesn’t). Why did he exempt FN people on claim of using these ‘tools’ to hunt with, when other Canadian hunters/sport shooters aren’t availed of the same consideration?

    Either this isn’t about safety at all, or Justin Trudeau doesn’t care about brown people.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/homicide-rate-6-times-higher-for-aboriginal-canadians-statscan-1.2673751

    • Ronald O'Dowd says:

      Andrew,

      Good point. I’ve always favoured the hunter’s and sportsperson’s exemption for everyone. However, where I draw the line is on semi-automatics for hunting. In my book, that’s a bridge too far for me.

      • Mark D says:

        I have never used semi-auto for hunting. Pump- or break- action for shotguns, and lever- or bolt- for rifles.

        Or, I use a bow.

        However, some of my Indigenous friends hunt on their ancestral and territorial lands using semi-automatic hunting rifles.

        I personally am not comfortable telling them it will no longer be legal for them to do so going forward because a mostly caucasian government in a big city far away thinks it is in their best interest to no longer do so.

        At some point we need to learn from Canadian history. Most of the harm we have inflicted upon Indigenous peoples historically began as good ideas “for their own best interest.” It is usually then followed by criminalization and decades of legal prosecution when they fail to agree with us that it is in “their own best interest.” Only in restrospect–usually after a public incident ending with the death of an Indigenous person–does society then recognized the harm inflicted against Indigenous Canadians and ask itself “How did we end up here?”

        We ended up here because we did not respect Indigenous Canadians on their own historical land.

    • Yet Another Calgarian says:

      Someone probably ran the political calculus on trying to take the weapons away from the Mohawk Warrior Society and decided that was a non starter.

      Given that there is non-permissive possession clause in this order in council just like the one in the 90s I would expect the buy back rate will be under 5% nationally. If nothing else people will keep them just to get that class on their licence and wait for the laws to change back at some point.

      Superficial feel good solutions for politically inconvenient problems.

      • Jim R says:

        That was exactly my take as well. The exemption relieves the government of having to have to even think about enforcing the ban on those few FNs that are militant and armed (any others besides the Mohawks?). Now nobody will be asking, a la blockades, “why isn’t the government enforcing the law”?

        The exemption is a hypocritical and spineless move.
        And if we accept the government’s rationale for the ban, the government is knowingly putting people at risk with this exemption.

  7. Dave says:

    Now that these have been effectively banned Canadian Tire will have no choice but to stop selling ammunition for this!!!!
    Argentine Mortar FMK2 81MM;
    (g) Argentine Mortar FMK2 120MM;
    (h) Argentine Mortar FMK1 60MM;
    (i) Argentine Mortar FMK2 60MM;
    (j) Argentine Mortar FMK3 60MMBritish Mortar ML-3 Inch;
    (z.002) British Mortar ML-4.2 Inch;
    (z.003) Brugger & Thomet GL06;
    (z.004) Bulgarian Mortar M60 60MM;
    (z.005) Bulgarian Mortar M81 81MM;
    (z.006) Bulgarian Mortar M82 82MM;
    (z.007) Chilean Mortar Commando;
    (z.008) Chilean Mortar M57 81MM;Missile Launcher 9K111 Fagot;
    (z.111) Missile Launcher 9K310 Igla-1;
    (z.112) Missile Launcher 9K32 Strela-2;
    (z.113) Missile Launcher 9K34 Strela-3;
    (z.114) Missile Launcher 9K38 Igla;
    (z.115) Missile Launcher BGM-71 TOW;
    (z.116) Missile Launcher Eryx;
    (z.117) Missile Launcher FGM-148 Javelin;
    (z.118) Missile Launcher FIM-43 Redeye;
    (z.119) Missile Launcher FIM-92 Stinger;
    (z.12) Missile Launcher HN-5;
    (z.121) Missile Launcher Ingwe;
    (z.122) Missile Launcher M47 Dragon;
    (z.123) Missile Launcher MILAN;
    (z.124) Missile Launcher Saegheh;
    (z.125) Missile Launcher Starstreak;
    (z.126) Missile Launcher Toophan;
    (z.127) Missile Launcher Type 79;

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